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Why don't you guys support your LDS for these purchases? You might pay a couple of extra bucks for the tank, but you're going to have a bitch of time getting an airfill from DGX or Leisurepro when the local guy goes belly up because you saved a few dollars buying a tank. In the overall scheme of things, it's nothing.

I'm all for buying oddities from the online guys. If the LDS has to order in some special bit of gear, that makes total sense, but every dive shop should have a few tanks in stock, ready to go.

Based on my experience in Tobermory, we have gone from three shops to two, and now one. It's a nice shop and well run, and even owned by friends, but if something happens to them, I'll be having to buy a compressor.
 
That’s good to know. I looked around to see how they were shipped and their policy on VIPing them and couldn’t find it. I’m going to be looking at getting some 40’s or maybe 80’s for 50 and 100% sometime this summer.

You might want to contact them first though, its been a few years since I had tanks shipped from them. As pointed out above, I can also respect the view on why some shops would be unwilling to ship with a VIP sticker (or subsequently fill) since the cylinder is initially presented empty. When I had a fill station and dive shop, I would personally treat a customers shipped empty tank with a VIP the same as a customer running a tank dry; which was a cursory (non-charged) quick peek inside before filling. Again, I can understand why there are different opinions on how this is handled between shops / fill stations and can respect their stance either way on filling.
 
Why don't you guys support your LDS for these purchases? You might pay a couple of extra bucks for the tank, but you're going to have a bitch of time getting an airfill from DGX or Leisurepro when the local guy goes belly up because you saved a few dollars buying a tank. In the overall scheme of things, it's nothing.

I'm all for buying oddities from the online guys. If the LDS has to order in some special bit of gear, that makes total sense, but every dive shop should have a few tanks in stock, ready to go.

Based on my experience in Tobermory, we have gone from three shops to two, and now one. It's a nice shop and well run, and even owned by friends, but if something happens to them, I'll be having to buy a compressor.

I dont have an LDS, the closest one is an hour and a half each way IF traffic is light. The last AL80 I priced in a shop was right at $100 higher than what I could order one for.

DW
 
Why don't you guys support your LDS for these purchases? You might pay a couple of extra bucks for the tank, but you're going to have a bitch of time getting an airfill from DGX or Leisurepro when the local guy goes belly up because you saved a few dollars buying a tank. In the overall scheme of things, it's nothing.

I'm all for buying oddities from the online guys. If the LDS has to order in some special bit of gear, that makes total sense, but every dive shop should have a few tanks in stock, ready to go.

Based on my experience in Tobermory, we have gone from three shops to two, and now one. It's a nice shop and well run, and even owned by friends, but if something happens to them, I'll be having to buy a compressor.

I tried that when I first started diving. Got everything through the shop I was certified through. Then started getting the runaround when I wanted something that wasn't actually on his shelf. Then as I progressed and started DM training with the shop I began to see how much markup there was. Followed by joining this forum and finding out about places like ScubaToys, LeisurePro, DGX, TDL, etc.
So for a few months I gave him every opportunity to at least match them while I was helping out in the shop and filling tanks, lugging gear for classes, etc. He'd throw me a bone every so often. Then I decided I wanted to go BPW after meeting some GUE trained guys I started to dive with.
He went ballistic. "You don't need that stuff, why do you want a longer hose, just wait Hollis is going to come out with a line in a year or so and I'll be a dealer."
Then Oceanic had a deal on a CDX5 w/GT3 second. 125 dealer cost or thereabouts. Mind you I had just helped set up the new shop and was manning it to help out for no pay. He got me one in. Then he charged me the MAP price on the deal.
Last piece of gear I ever bought from him. After that, I got everything on line.
Fills? Every quarry I dive at has a fill station. The boat in Erie? Fills through trimix.
Unless people are diving private lakes or out in the boonies, a shop isn't needed to get fills.
 
I dont have an LDS, the closest one is an hour and a half each way IF traffic is light. The last AL80 I priced in a shop was right at $100 higher than what I could order one for.

DW

Fair enough. You must have your own compressor then?

Edit: Never mind... Jim addressed that!
 
I tried that when I first started diving. Got everything through the shop I was certified through.

You're right that many shops leave a lot to be desired in terms of customer service, and I don't disagree with you about the more esoteric bits and pieces.

Regarding fills, on-site air isn't common here, so that's a legit difference. I don't know of a quarry here that has gas, and in popular charter areas like Kingston and the St Lawrence, boat guys just send customers off to a shop for fills. The shops don't run charters, so they work together.

Anyway, you win. ;-)
 
You're right that many shops leave a lot to be desired in terms of customer service, and I don't disagree with you about the more esoteric bits and pieces.

Regarding fills, on-site air isn't common here, so that's a legit difference. I don't know of a quarry here that has gas, and in popular charter areas like Kingston and the St Lawrence, boat guys just send customers off to a shop for fills. The shops don't run charters, so they work together.

Anyway, you win. ;-)

You asked the question I was wondering about why not buying local. Here, only my local quarry has fills whenever the quarry is open for diving. One in the region has fills available for 4 hours each on Sat and Sunday. Another will supposedly do films whenever they’re open, but the owner has often had excuses why he couldn’t do them when I’ve asked. Good thing I brought enough filled tanks of my own. Boats here don’t fill, so you have to go to a shop.
 
Quick update on the original post. In order to avoid a headache I ended up making a transaction for a used luxfer (“good alloy”) for a very friendly price (god bless scubaboard). My plan is to sell the freshly hydroed and inspected tank at the competent but inconveniently located almost LDS that will fill a tank that has a current eddy current examination. I’ll keep the new to me luxfer so I can get it filled three minutes from my house.
 
So here is the Dive Gear Express take on the classic AL80 tank pricing.

First, know there will ALWAYS be someone who sells an AL80 cheaper than the next guy and we are no exception. No matter what price you find, if you look hard enough you'll find someone else a dollar less, stop when you get to diminishing returns on your time. Then take that price in to your LDS and ask for price match if you wish, including one or more free fills, and if you think it you are "supporting" your local dealer then good on you. (But also know the LDS at best broke even and probably just actually lost money on the deal, but may not realize it because he doesn't know his actual true costs.) The reality is that, on an ongoing basis, the AL80 is consistently best deal in the dive industry for the diver. For the dive retailer, online or local, the AL80 is one of our most consistent headaches. But here a few things to consider...

The lowest prices online often don't include an inspection, any inspection at all, by the seller. Technically, the cylinder was inspected as part of the hydro test but as every long time inspector of new cylinders will tell you they reject a surprising number of brand new cylinders out of the box every year. Most often for contamination (water, insects, foreign objects, and rarely but sometimes for thread faults.) My personal best is opening the box, popping the neck cap off, dropping the light in and seeing a 1/2 inch threaded hole completely through the bottom center of a brand new Luxfer AL80 still in the distributor box and sealed in the plastic bag.

If the cylinder IS inspected, last I heard from PSI, only a relatively small number of people performing "inspections" are PSI or TDI certified to inspect. DGX inspects every cylinder before is ships (unless we screw up, extremely rare but has happened) and everyone in the company is a certified PSI inspector that retrains every 3 years. We know there are a lot of unqualified inspectors because from time-to-time we get a angry call from a customer who has been told by their LDS (who took it upon themselves to reinspect) that we sold them a defective cylinder and shows them the "cracks" in the neck to prove it. The four evenly spaced "cracks", each 90 degrees from the next.

If the cylinder gets a valve, it also gets a VIP decal (unless we screw up and fail to put it on, or fail to punch it, also rare but also has happened). Our Nitrox Ready VIP decal isn't a giant shop advertisement, it's actually contains useful advice if you read it. Most importantly it indicates the cylinder can be used with gases containing more than 23.5% oxygen. Many VIP decals are either absent (meaning it's incumbent on someone else downstream to guess if the cylinder is really suitable for oxygen rich gas) or is an air only VIP decal. DGX specializes in customers to whom Nitrox Ready is an important feature in our products, and that costs a little extra because it's not just a matter of punching out a hole on the decal. We have policies and practices, specialized equipment and work areas, as well as the materials to stand behind that Nitrox Ready VIP decal. If it's not important to you, then an air only AL80 should always be priced less. We can't sell both air and Nitrox Ready tanks because we don't want to take the risk of co-mingled air and nitrox materials. There are no rubber o-rings and no silicone lubes anywhere in our operation, we only inventory and use oxygen compatible materials.

We ship our cylinders assembled with the valve (unless you ask us not too) which saves time and effort for you, but causes some headaches. The delivery guy who dumps the tank on your porch and breaks off the knob at the valve stem (because that's what it's supposed to do on impact) is an ongoing problem for us and unfortunately it's not as rare as we would hope. Because we always make it right with the customer, and that's an indirect cost but our price includes the assembly and thus the 'insurance' if it's damaged. We pack them very well, at a shocking cost in packing time and materials last time I checked, see
but some how damage still happens and we have a no-hassles policy.

We install a good quality Nitrox Ready valve (not all are created equal and you get what you pay for is as true for cylinder valves as it is for most everything else). Many of the lowest priced on-line deals use a valve with a quality that essentially negates the great price. We also offer more valve options than most on-line retailers.

Yep, we charge for shipping on large cylinders, it's one of the few items for which we don't have a free shipping option. We do charge only what it really costs us, and we get some really good discounts on shipping from the carriers. Some on-line retailers will 'price average' the shipping cost for something as big as an AL80 , add that to the selling price and call the shipping free. We used to do that, but discovered we were shipping a lot more cylinders to the west coast than the east coast and it just didn't seem fair. So if you live really far from Florida, a retailer who is closer to you or who offers 'free' shipping on tanks might very well have a lower price than DGX.

So there you go, not all AL80's are the same, even when the price is the same. Want to help support your local dive shop? Rent your tanks, please don't buy them!
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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