How often do you need a 400ft primary reel?

[Manatee Diver]

So far in my cave training I've been using a 250ft primary reel, that has been more than enough for Ginnie and Peacock. But with my trip to Mexico coming up I've read that having a 400ft primary reel is sometimes needed. But my question is how often do you need it?

I am asking because I am trying to decide between the $70 classic and the $165 slidelock. If it is once in a blue moon then there is no reason to spend a ton on it. But if I might be using it more often that a rare try to Mexico I might want to spend the cash now for a slidelock, as I prefer the slidelocks over my classic reel.

 

[Scuba Lawyer]

I have dove a fair number of systems in the Riveria Maya (Akumal-Tulum) corridor and don't recall ever needing a 400 foot primary. Years ago we explored a new system out in the middle of nowhere that we had to helicopter into the jungle for but of course there was no main-line to find. My 2psi . Of course, if you get there and find out you do need a 400' line, just ignore my advice. Not my fault, I was left unsupervised.

 

[Jack Hammer]

400 is super handy. In Mexico we needed it for most the caves I was in

 

[kensuf]

I'm not a fan of a slidelock just because of the potential for grit to get in there and jam the mechanism. Now a sidewinder is a great reel.

At any rate, here in Florida, a 250's more than enough for most tourist places. In Mexico, if you hire a guide (I'd recommend that for your first few trips), the guide will probably have a primary reel.

 

[1atm]

In Mexico, the 400ft one is quite handy.

If you know the shortest path, you probably won’t need all the line often. But realistically, as a beginner or when you’re new to a cave, you sometimes don’t quite take the shortest path - at least we had a few entertaining mainline search dives back then. Also, it will give you more flexibility, if there are several other lines in place, to take a different path (if there is space).

Moreover, if you’re playing by Cave 1 rules, you can extend your envelope a little, by running that reel not to the start of the mainline, but to a first jump lets say. Eg in Nohoch, you can run it to the very nice Parker line, without creating a navigational decision, as would be the case when doing a jump.

And finally, while not being cumbersome, a bit of extra line capacity is very useful. To make it easier to handle, you probably want to remove some line, it’s no longer 400ft, but say 360ft. After a while, the beginning of that line will be quite battered, so it’s nice if you can cut off that part without having to replace all the line (eventually you will, but less hassle at the beginning).

So go for the 400ft. I like the Lightmonkey one and the Halcyon one, of the two I picked the LM as it has more Delrin vs Alu and is thus a bit lighter out of the water in the airline luggage. Under water it doesnt matter between the two.

 

[tbone1004]

I'm not a fan of a slidelock just because of the potential for grit to get in there and jam the mechanism. Now a sidewinder is a great reel.

At any rate, here in Florida, a 250's more than enough for most tourist places. In Mexico, if you hire a guide (I'd recommend that for your first few trips), the guide will probably have a primary reel.

I'll agree on slidelock, but disagree on sidewinder. I can't stand reeling them back in. Personal preference but I find them to be a PITA as a primary reel. Have probably 3 of them that I've acquired over the last decade and while I love them for paying line out, I just find reeling them back in to be more irritating so I use a traditional Dive Rite one.

On the 250 vs 400. I have a 250 with wreck line and a 400 with cave line. They're cheap enough that it's not the end of the world to have both. There are a few instances in Florida where the 400 is quite nice to have.

 

[tmassey]

So far in my cave training I've been using a 250ft primary reel, that has been more than enough for Ginnie and Peacock. But with my trip to Mexico coming up I've read that having a 400ft primary reel is sometimes needed. But my question is how often do you need it?

I am asking because I am trying to decide between the $70 classic and the $165 slidelock. If it is once in a blue moon then there is no reason to spend a ton on it. But if I might be using it more often that a rare try to Mexico I might want to spend the cash now for a slidelock, as I prefer the slidelocks over my classic reel.

Here’s my thinking as a baby full cave diver who is open to suggestion:

I have a 400’ primary. I use it even in tourist caves in Florida. Seeing as it’s the first reel I’ll use right at the beginning, I don’t care if it’s 370’ longer than I need. It’s not that much bigger than a 250’, and I’m not going to have it on me for 99% of the dive anyway.

What’s the flaw in my logic?

As for slide lock: my 400’ happens to be a slide lock. I’ve never had it jam. Of course, as a baby cave diver, I’ve probably only used it 20 or so times. (Probably a bit more: I’ve used it on wrecks, too.) I prefer the single handed operation: it’s extremely handy. The biggest problem I’ve found is that other divers can be confused. I had a diver who couldn’t figure out how to lock it while underwater.

(ETA: I really like my Larry Green reel. Kinda halfway between a classic and sidewinder. Easier to reel in, not as jam-resistant but really easy to clear.)

Like tbone, I find the classic reels easier to reel in, but harder to pay out. But not enough to prefer one over the other yet. Being a noob, I still find jamming a reel to be a thing, so the sidewinder style gets a thumbs up there. They’re not impossible to screw up (I’ve done it on land), but decently resistant. I haven’t truly nested a classic, but I have jammed them once or twice.

I doubt that helps you that much. But I would like to know why using my 400’ as a primary every time is a bad idea.

 

[tbone1004]

@tmassey 400ft and 250ft primary reels are usually identical. 400ft has #24 line on it that we call "cave line", and the 250ft reels have #36 line that we call "wreck line". The reel itself is the same. I have seen some sidewinders that have 250ft of #24 on them and think I may actually have one that HOG sent me, but for primary reels that you don't actually move around with clipped off, I don't see any point in carrying a smaller reel than the "standard" primary size. Explorer reels are too unwieldy to reel back in and aren't really designed for it, and the smaller ones don't get you anything.

Unjamming classic reels *ideally your buddies, not yours*, is a great way to pass time at deco....

 

[jadairiii]

400. you will need it in Mexico, and they are perfect for ocean scooter or drift diving with a torpedo float (250' is too short for that in high current). I have a LM 400'.

 

[tmassey]

I was thinking of the smaller *150*’ classic “safety” reels, which I’ve seen used as a primary in those tourist caves. They are smaller, but who cares on a primary? Seems like my logic is OK, then.

And nice to know that I’m not the only one who jams them...