Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[kensuf]

Or, if it is so rough that's not feasible, then just have the crew do a quick drop line, clip off to that, climb up then pull the bottle up (of course this option morphs into the whole "not shutting engines down during pickup" rabbit hole

We drifted north of Boca almost all the way to Delray after leaving the Hydro on Sunday. It was a 30 minute hang. I don't want them shutting down the engines in current like that, I'd rather have the strength to just walk up the ladder with my gear.

 

[Subcooled]

Inspected vessels in the USA, like in the UK, may not have lifts, as it is considered an elevator which has a ton of inspection requirements.

Get a crane.

Surely the backmounted doubles can be doffed in water? An up they go!

 

[macado]

I can't believe I am responding to this thread. I was going to bite my virtual tongue here but I just can't. There is a huge difference between needing a little minor assistance and not being able to haul yourself out of the water at all and having to rely completely on the assistance of the boat crew.

The person in question that this post is referring to is unable to climb a dive ladder in backmount doubles and has trouble unclipping stage/deco bottles to the point where the boat crew has to do EVERYTHING for them. This is not safe. When a diver needs full-on assistance EVERY DIVE, EVERY TIME, this is not safe. Repeated emphasis here is intentional.

This is not a "macho" tech diver thing nor is it an ego thing and I'm not talking about special unique circumstances. To be blunt, if you're not physically fit enough to climb a ladder in your primary configuration (single tank/doubles/rebreather) you should NOT be doing the dive. Yes I understand in other parts of the world diver lifts are a thing and I quite enjoyed them in Scapa Flow and in Newfoundland. I'm a big believer in diver lifts but they still don't negate the need for a minimum level of physical fitness.

I'm not the fittest person in the world either but I think more people need to realize that diving is physical exercise and sometimes requires real exertion whether you want to believe it or not. I know it doesn't seem that way when you're gently swimming in non-existent current trying to expend as little energy as possible but not every day is perfect, sometimes there are surface currents, ripping currents on the bottom, and rough and dangerous seas that require climbing aboard with all your gear.

I've had to rescue enough people in the water who surfaced a mere ~50 yards/50m/150ft (pick your distance) away from the boat, field strip people of all their gear and tanks because they did not have physical stamina to climb a boat ladder. I'm perhaps pretty jaded here but I've crewed and captained on multiple dive boats the last 8 years and I've seen way too much of this. My expectation is you should be able to climb a ladder in backmount doubles or a rebreather or single tank configuration.

If you can't do this then this needs to be discussed with the boat crew beforehand so they can plan accordingly and know what to expect. Yelling, screaming, and angrily demanding boat crew to unclip your bottles, pull you up the ladder is going to get you on the "boat is full" list REAL FAST.

Obviously bailouts, stages, deco bottles should be clipped off to a line or handed up to the crew if sea conditions allow. Climbing a ladder with multiple bottles is a good way to get bent. Yes I believe you should be able to do this in emergency but I'm not going to require it. If the **** really hits the fan then dump the bottles and gear. We can replace gear, we can't replace people.

I think you need to read a little bit between the lines. The charter operation in question was not saying they would not help you at all. All they said was if you required the full-on help of the crew for every single dive and needed to be hauled out of the water by the crew every single dive then maybe diving or technical diving is not for you.

It's a harsh reality for some people to understand but the captain and crew would rather you not die on their boat.

 

[Celt]

I can't believe I am responding to this thread. I was going to bite my virtual tongue here but I just can't. There is a huge difference between needing a little minor assistance and not being able to haul yourself out of the water at all and having to rely completely on the assistance of the boat crew.

The person in question that this post is referring to is unable to climb a dive ladder in backmount doubles and has trouble unclipping stage/deco bottles to the point where the boat crew has to do EVERYTHING for them. This is not safe. When a diver needs full-on assistance EVERY DIVE, EVERY TIME, this is not safe. Repeated emphasis here is intentional.

This is not a "macho" tech diver thing nor is it an ego thing and I'm not talking about special unique circumstances. To be blunt, if you're not physically fit enough to climb a ladder in your primary configuration (single tank/doubles/rebreather) you should NOT be doing the dive. Yes I understand in other parts of the world diver lifts are a thing and I quite enjoyed them in Scapa Flow and in Newfoundland. I'm a big believer in diver lifts but they still don't negate the need for a minimum level of physical fitness.

I'm not the fittest person in the world either but I think more people need to realize that diving is physical exercise and sometimes requires real exertion whether you want to believe it or not. I know it doesn't seem that way when you're gently swimming in non-existent current trying to expend as little energy as possible but not every day is perfect, sometimes there are surface currents, ripping currents on the bottom, and rough and dangerous seas that require climbing aboard with all your gear.

I've had to rescue enough people in the water who surfaced a mere ~50 yards/50m/150ft (pick your distance) away from the boat, field strip people of all their gear and tanks because they did not have physical stamina to climb a boat ladder. I'm perhaps pretty jaded here but I've crewed and captained on multiple dive boats the last 8 years and I've seen way too much of this. My expectation is you should be able to climb a ladder in backmount doubles or a rebreather or single tank configuration.

If you can't do this then this needs to be discussed with the boat crew beforehand so they can plan accordingly and know what to expect. Yelling, screaming, and angrily demanding boat crew to unclip your bottles, pull you up the ladder is going to get you on the "boat is full" list REAL FAST.

Obviously bailouts, stages, deco bottles should be clipped off to a line or handed up to the crew if sea conditions allow. Climbing a ladder with multiple bottles is a good way to get bent. Yes I believe you should be able to do this in emergency but I'm not going to require it. If the **** really hits the fan then dump the bottles and gear. We can replace gear, we can't replace people.

I think you need to read a little bit between the lines. The charter operation in question was not saying they would not help you at all. All they said was if you required the full-on help of the crew for every single dive and needed to be hauled out of the water by the crew every single dive then maybe diving or technical diving is not for you.

It's a harsh reality for some people to understand but the captain and crew would rather you not die on their boat.

So what if you can’t climb a ladder in doubles, I’ve never done it.

 

[rjack321]

So what if you can’t climb a ladder in doubles, I’ve never done it.

Then you need to hit the gym or not tech dive off boats with ladders here. Its pretty much universally expected that you can climb a ladder with your doubles or CCR on, but not necessarily your deco or BO bottles.

 

[macado]

So what if you can’t climb a ladder in doubles, I’ve never done it.

Then you shouldn't dive. There is always one of you.

Can you get back on the boat yourself? If you can de-kit yourself in the water, clip your doubles off to a line and haul them back on the boat then that works too. I've done plenty of diving from RIBs and this is an acceptable solution. De-kit in the water, inflate your doubles/rebreather, clip it off. Discuss it with crew first but recognize this is not always possible.

I'm not saying you need to be superman here. There are always special circumstances. My post is not about that. The person in question cannot get out of their gear themselves, they do not have physical stamina to climb a ladder in their kit nor can they unclip or get out of the gear themselves.

I'm not talking about disabled or handicapped divers or legitimate emergency situations either, that also falls under special circumstances.

 

[Celt]

Then you need to hit the gym or not tech dive off boats with ladders here. Its pretty much universally expected that you can climb a ladder with your doubles or CCR on, but not necessarily your deco or BO bottles.

It’s not a matter of whether I can or can’t do it. I’m just not stupid enough to do it. I drop the weight and climb aboard safely.

 

[Celt]

Then you shouldn't dive. There is always one of you.

Can you get back on the boat yourself? If you can de-kit yourself in the water, clip your doubles off to a line and haul them back on the boat then that works too. I've done plenty of diving from RIBs and this is an acceptable solution. De-kit in the water, inflate your doubles/rebreather, clip it off. Discuss it with crew first but recognize this is not always possible.

I'm not saying you need to be superman here. There are always special circumstances. My post is not about that. The person in question cannot get out of their gear themselves, they do not have physical stamina to climb a ladder in their kit nor can they unclip or get out of the gear themselves.

I'm not talking about disabled or handicapped divers or legitimate emergency situations either, that also falls under special circumstances.

I’ve gotten in and out of everything from 3 meter pleasure boats to 30 meter beam trawlers and the very idea that you would have to be able to climb a ladder dressed in a twin set in order to somehow qualify you to dive is ridiculous.

 

[shoredivr]

I’ve gotten in and out of everything from 3 meter pleasure boats to 30 meter beam trawlers and the very idea that you would have to be able to climb a ladder dressed in a twin set in order to somehow qualify you to dive is ridiculous.

Amen to that. If we all know that exercise post-deco diving can force open a silent PFO and shunt bubbles, and that for this reason it should be avoided, why is there a insistence on climbing a ladder in doubles?

For this reason alone lifts are a good idea.

 

[formernuke]

Ok, I don't do a lot of boat dives they charters I've been on....

If you put your fins on while seated the crew will help you walk to the end to giant stride off. This is done by them holding your tank and offering a arm if you want it so you don't fall.

If you climb on with fins they will do the same.

I grab the ladder, remove and pass up fins then climb up the ladder, the crew will sometimes grab the tank on the last couple steps and ask if I have my footing.

Is this help necessary, no but I appreciate not falling in full gear while in steel tank, heavy drysuit undergarments etc.