LDS Won't + 10% Fill Plus Rated Tank?

[Scared Silly]

Ask for the owner ... and explain that their fill jockey does not know what they are doing.

 

[seeker242]

The question here seems to be, do + rated tanks need to stay continuously + rated, for each and every hydro, in order for the latest to be valid? Tank monkey says yes.

 

[Johnoly]

Long story short. ..

If a shop doesn't want to fill your request, you can Fight, Feed, or Flight.

If you want to fight, next time you go into the shop, grab the pressure checker and put it on the owner's/employee's steel tanks and see what they give themselves. Every owner/employee overfills their own tanks.

You can also always Flight and jump to another shop.

The only other way to get your requested fill is to Feed and straight up "food-bribery". I use chilled lobster chunks and Lionfish Ceviche and it always works. Warm Krispy Creme donuts, Hot pepperoni Pizza, & Chicken Wings also work incredibly well and leave them smiling when filling your empty tanks.Yaa, it costs you an extra $7 for food, but you only need to do it a couple of times each season and that extra bottom time is well worth the food bribe.

 

[bletso]

A couple of points,
To get the volume in a steel 3AA cyl the manufacturers / scuba industry use the + as a selling point, eg a 95 cf cyl will be 95 cf if filled to the + rated pressure.

A 3AA cyl qualifies for the + rating when its REE is not exceeded. (Residual elastic expansion) It doesn't matter if the previous tester +'d it or not. A lot of hydro facilities just don't do it. On newer cylinders most manufacturers stamp this value on the cylinder. Others can be found in the CGA 5 tables 1 and 1b. Still others will require a UT wall thickness measurement and some calculations which most will not go through all that effort. (I don't)

To be sure there are a lot of fill station operators and dive shop operators who are ignorant of the facts or just won't fill a cyl to the + rating. (perhaps the math is beyond their mental acuity) It may also be simply just to short change the customer. BTW, It is also not just dive shops as many industrial supply companies just fill to a standard pressure. I have seen this many times i.e. a 2265 cyl filled to 2015, etc.

 

[Dubious]

The question here seems to be, do + rated tanks need to stay continuously + rated, for each and every hydro, in order for the latest to be valid? Tank monkey says yes.

I am not sure that was what he was saying. He was telling me a tank could only be plus rated for the first 5 years. I told him that seemed strange since those tanks rated capacity relied on that 10% . I will talk with him more the next time I am in the shop.

To be sure there are a lot of fill station operators and dive shop operators who are ignorant of the facts or just won't fill a cyl to the + rating. (perhaps the math is beyond their mental acuity) It may also be simply just to short change the customer. BTW, It is also not just dive shops as many industrial supply companies just fill to a standard pressure. I have seen this many times i.e. a 2265 cyl filled to 2015, etc.

Thanks. I will chat with him or the shop manager the next time I am in the shop to further understand what he was saying and see if it is just a misunderstanding. When I was there they had a lot of open water students getting fitted for wetsuits so it was busier than normal. He's a good guy. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something before I pushed the is

@Dubious you should also see if you can get the records for the testing on the lp95s to see if they actually failed the criteria for the plus per the REE or if the shop just didn't have the info

Is this something I can do before the next hydro? It would be nice to have the full fill especially when my wife is diving hp 100's.

 

[James79]

The question here seems to be, do + rated tanks need to stay continuously + rated, for each and every hydro, in order for the latest to be valid? Tank monkey says yes.

Tank monkey is wrong.... previous hydro testers being lazy has no bearing on the tank's passing or not passing plus rating criteria. You could always ask for the reference, or bring in the reference and try to educate them.
I found it in the 2018 CFR (I'll attach). Note that there is no reference to continuity of plus rating, but there is reference requiring it to have been originally plus rated. So my 3A 1800 psi tanks can never be plus rated, but my 3AA 2250 tanks that were plus rated from the factory, but haven't been on their last few hydros can be re-qualified for plus rating.
Respectfully,
James

Others chimed in with most of this, while I was digging for references!

 

[Dubious]

https://www.phmsa.dot.gov/sites/phm...aking/hazmat/interpretations/56816/170035.pdf

@Wookie I am not sure that the PHMSA requires an original + stamp as long as all sections of 173.302a are satisfied

Thank you. One of the 72's I referenced that was not plus rated on the last hydro is actually a PST 3000 96 cf tank like referenced in the inquiry, but people look at me funny when I tell them it isn't a 72.

Others chimed in with most of this, while I was digging for references!

Thank you for this.

Tank monkey

Why tank monkey? Where does this come from.

 

[HeatCker]

i think you mentioned your wife is diving hp100 3442 psi
get yourself a transfill whip and transfer gas from the HP tanks to the LP tanks
then take the HP tanks back to the shop for top ups
this only works well if the shop is close by and if the shop will top up your HP tanks for free
it doesn't take long to top up the tanks, especially if you drop them off to be topped up when they are filling others
i'm not sure if explaining to the shop what your doing will get you a top up
maybe like johnoly said, you can always show your gratitude with a bottle of rum
good luck

 

[James79]

Why tank monkey? Where does this come from.

Reference to "monkeying with something" i.e. how a monkey will take things and try to figure them out. Tank monkey is someone dealing with tanks (fills, etc.) without understanding of the why and how.

 

[Dubious]

think you mentioned your wife is diving hp100 3442 psi
get yourself a transfill whip and transfer gas from the HP tanks to the LP tanks
then take the HP tanks back to the shop for top ups

We actually have free fills on the hp100 for another year, but the shop is 50 minutes away. I am also not sure this would be the most honest thing to do.