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I appreciate that you are new to the SCUBA Board, the diving world, and are from the land locked state of Kentucky
Noted world wide for its Kentucky Derby-- the run for the roses
Your avatar displaying an upside down dive flag is of concern :It is a lovely artist rendering of a torn and tattered flag
amd flown up side down. Any time a flag is flown up side down it indicates distress - help needed
Was/is this intentional or a mistake made by the uniformed -- or are you inm distress and need assistance
Cheers from California where it all began
Samuel Miller, 111
Noted world wide for its Kentucky Derby-- the run for the roses
Your avatar displaying an upside down dive flag is of concern :It is a lovely artist rendering of a torn and tattered flag
amd flown up side down. Any time a flag is flown up side down it indicates distress - help needed
Was/is this intentional or a mistake made by the uniformed -- or are you inm distress and need assistance
Cheers from California where it all began
Samuel Miller, 111
OP
Hogfxstxc
Registered
Hey Sam,
Thanks for pointing that out, I'm in no distress and do not require any assistance. I didn't even realize that it was upside down.
As you mentioned we are well known for the KY derby and bourbon.
Cheers, John
Thanks for pointing that out, I'm in no distress and do not require any assistance. I didn't even realize that it was upside down.
As you mentioned we are well known for the KY derby and bourbon.
Cheers, John
Rose Robinson
Contributor
Hi Sam,
Your post made me curious enough to look further.
I went looking for dive flag info, and every reference I found, including Wikipedia shows the ''Diver Down'' flag as having the white diagonal line, top left, bottom right.
Both the DAN, and the ScubaBoard logos show top left, bottom right.
Are you saying the white diagonal line should be top right, bottom left if the flag is right side up.
A top left, bottom right Diver Down flag, remains top left, bottom right, when you position it upside down, corner to corner does not change.
Is there something I'm missing, or do I need to put on a second pot of coffee. I haven't been hands-on lately, so I know it's not the formaldehyde.
Thank you,
Rose
maybe it was on it's side so the slash was top right to bottom left...and since that initial post, the OP has changed their icon...thus making Sam appear mistaken, and prompting your post...
Rose Robinson
Contributor
OP
Hogfxstxc
Registered
It was similar to this one, I really didn't pay that close of attention to it.
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@rose Roberson
Goooood Mornng Mrs. Roberson
After reading your well researched post I thought I and my new best friend @Hogfxstkr, from the great state of Kentucky -- the home of Bourbon & branch water, fast horses and good looking women had made a terrible mistake...
Not So !
My new best friend @Hogfxstkr had ORIGIALLY posted a tattered well worn up side down dive flag which is a universal sign of distress- (Help !) which appeared had gone through 20 hurricanes and somehow survived to be flown again. I welcomed him and informed him his up side down flag indicated distress
He immediately changed the flag to a fresh modern dive flag oriented in the correct up right position on his avatar
Enter @Rose Robinson equipped with google research ( and if it is on google it MUST BE CORRECT !)
But please bear in mind we appreciate your concern and research
Enter the Hoosier @dogbone from the great mid western state of Indiana home of fast cars and, charming, good looking and exceptionally intelligent divers who graciously corrected @rose Roberson.
Which brings us back to this slow walking, slow talking, slow thing broken down diver from CenCal who originally
Corrected @Hogfxstxc upside down tattered red & white dive flag
FYI
~~~~~ DIVE FLAG HISTORY ~~~~`
The creation of a flag to identify recreational diving activity was via two sentences by the late Ted Nixon in the 1957 Skin Diver Magazine editorial page .(Way before PADI)
It's purpose, size, shape, and color was discussed for the next three years by divers from all over the world- including the US and Canada.
Your area -- US and Canada ? Check local ordinances. If none in place make a presentation t the local governing origination - They are all interested in reducing all hazards in their jurisdiction
The red and white flag was adapted by the then international diving community in 1960 as the official -but not recognized - flag of recreational diving activity
* size: 5 units wide X 4 units high X I unit diagonal stripe
(For ease of manufacture it is often sold in a square format- which has become a norm )
* color: Body- Initially international a number was produced in blaze (neon)orange - (I have ONE) later officially changed to bright red '
The Stripe? - Always White
(FYI - I was presented and have framed in my den one of and the last of two original dive flags hand sewn by Ted Nixon's wife in 1957- A treasure of diving history - a family heirloom )
We Divers were very proud of our flag - at that time the only sport that had a unique functional international flag -- even though it was not and official flag it was a recognized flag of the sport of diving
The flag appeared on cover of SDM for one year - 1960 -1961 (Way before PADI)
( It has always been on cover of California Diving News (CDN) and the Journal of diving history (HDS)
( and possibly a few other publications)
1960s (1960s to 1970s ?) Way before PADI
GLACD (Greater Los Angles County of divers) placed Dive flag posters at most Sothern California marinas, attended and displayed at local Recreational & Sportsman Shows.
First accident in the US involving a boat and diver displaying a divers flag
* September 22, 1961 (Way before PADI)
* Long Point, Catalina Island, California
* Toso (injured diver) vs Burns (Boat Owner / Operator )
* Established rights of a diver displaying the red & while dive flag
* Maritime Legal system - Burns 95% primarily responsible
( I was summoned as the only Professional Witness at the trial for the injured diver- This was the first litigation of the "flag' which established the rights and privileges of a diver in the water displaying a red and white flag)
I had numerous consultations private and industry consultations after the trial
Rogers Emblem Co of Los Angeles begin producing Dive Flag jewelry : Lapel pins. tie tacs, cuff links
*I was the "First Guest editor Skin Diver Magazine-" 1968 (?)
Subject "Sign Post to Safety" (AKA the red & white dive flag)
(encouraged divers every where to display and to popularize the divers flag)
* I authored description for USCG Auxiliary
* Included in Chapmans book Small boat handling
(There is little resemblance to my description and what was published - and is possibly still us after almost 65 years )
Dive Training Magazine (Collen Bondy) Two articles on Dive flag -1990s
* Ted Nixon had been deceased for several years
* Florida dive operator claims credit for dive flag
(Absolutely NO documents substanuation the claim)
Who's who in SCUBA Diving A book published in 1993 listing prominent diving personages (so far as can be verified I am the only SB member listed )
Once again
* Florida dive operator claims credit for dive flag
(Once again absolutely NO documents substanuation the claim)
Consulted on disputed ownership of red & white dive flag
1988 New England,,,Ownership of the Red & white flag disputed...
* 18 months of research and consolation
* Absolutely NO documents to substanuation of the claim of the Florida dive operator as the Father of the flag
* Judgement -Red and white dive flag was now in public domain- no ownership
Numerous presentations and consultations to industry and the private sector
Program - 2014- History of the red & white dive flag
* SLO UW S&R DivCon
* The SCUBA show
* I was honored with the SCUBA Service Award the same year
(Google the award & Dr. Samuel Miller)
I met with local officials We now have permanent dive flag posting at all my local beaches
DEMA develops 2015 dive flag awareness program
* three different sizes of white stripes on flags displayed in program
* two different sizes of flags ?????
(makes one question DEMAs historical knowledge of the dive flag)
( I have only seen the DEMA clip once - it seemed to have been pulled )
Novice members of the diving community often display their acceptance and involvement with their new found activity by proudly display a dive flag or some thing with a red back ground and some sort of a white stripe that faintly resembles a dive flag. Which is appreciated but if used in a tragic event and tested I a court of law would possibly be determined to be a useless rag hanging from a shaft
Others acknowledge the existence of the dive flag and the responsibility to display it during diving activities but they refuse to use it. Should they be struck by a boat they would have no legal recourse.
A large segment of our community acknowledge the flag is required and use it but complain that the flag is not recognized and certainly not appreciated as a symbol of diving. They are often the diver who is some where below the surface near the floating flag. BUT they do absolutely nothing to educate the public on the history and purpose of the flag that they as boaters should respect -
Just maybe you can utilize the information provided and during the winter months create a Divers Flag Awareness Program in your local area of influence..
All is well, sunny and warm in CenCal...
Its been fun ....
Cheers
Sam Miller, 111 \
PS -- Since you are now equinmed with this knowledge of the dive flags history
Ask your fuzzy faced UW -( SCUBA) instructor about the flag -- and note the blank stare
Goooood Mornng Mrs. Roberson
After reading your well researched post I thought I and my new best friend @Hogfxstkr, from the great state of Kentucky -- the home of Bourbon & branch water, fast horses and good looking women had made a terrible mistake...
Not So !
My new best friend @Hogfxstkr had ORIGIALLY posted a tattered well worn up side down dive flag which is a universal sign of distress- (Help !) which appeared had gone through 20 hurricanes and somehow survived to be flown again. I welcomed him and informed him his up side down flag indicated distress
He immediately changed the flag to a fresh modern dive flag oriented in the correct up right position on his avatar
Enter @Rose Robinson equipped with google research ( and if it is on google it MUST BE CORRECT !)
But please bear in mind we appreciate your concern and research
Enter the Hoosier @dogbone from the great mid western state of Indiana home of fast cars and, charming, good looking and exceptionally intelligent divers who graciously corrected @rose Roberson.
Which brings us back to this slow walking, slow talking, slow thing broken down diver from CenCal who originally
Corrected @Hogfxstxc upside down tattered red & white dive flag
FYI
~~~~~ DIVE FLAG HISTORY ~~~~`
The creation of a flag to identify recreational diving activity was via two sentences by the late Ted Nixon in the 1957 Skin Diver Magazine editorial page .(Way before PADI)
It's purpose, size, shape, and color was discussed for the next three years by divers from all over the world- including the US and Canada.
Your area -- US and Canada ? Check local ordinances. If none in place make a presentation t the local governing origination - They are all interested in reducing all hazards in their jurisdiction
The red and white flag was adapted by the then international diving community in 1960 as the official -but not recognized - flag of recreational diving activity
* size: 5 units wide X 4 units high X I unit diagonal stripe
(For ease of manufacture it is often sold in a square format- which has become a norm )
* color: Body- Initially international a number was produced in blaze (neon)orange - (I have ONE) later officially changed to bright red '
The Stripe? - Always White
(FYI - I was presented and have framed in my den one of and the last of two original dive flags hand sewn by Ted Nixon's wife in 1957- A treasure of diving history - a family heirloom )
We Divers were very proud of our flag - at that time the only sport that had a unique functional international flag -- even though it was not and official flag it was a recognized flag of the sport of diving
The flag appeared on cover of SDM for one year - 1960 -1961 (Way before PADI)
( It has always been on cover of California Diving News (CDN) and the Journal of diving history (HDS)
( and possibly a few other publications)
1960s (1960s to 1970s ?) Way before PADI
GLACD (Greater Los Angles County of divers) placed Dive flag posters at most Sothern California marinas, attended and displayed at local Recreational & Sportsman Shows.
First accident in the US involving a boat and diver displaying a divers flag
* September 22, 1961 (Way before PADI)
* Long Point, Catalina Island, California
* Toso (injured diver) vs Burns (Boat Owner / Operator )
* Established rights of a diver displaying the red & while dive flag
* Maritime Legal system - Burns 95% primarily responsible
( I was summoned as the only Professional Witness at the trial for the injured diver- This was the first litigation of the "flag' which established the rights and privileges of a diver in the water displaying a red and white flag)
I had numerous consultations private and industry consultations after the trial
Rogers Emblem Co of Los Angeles begin producing Dive Flag jewelry : Lapel pins. tie tacs, cuff links
*I was the "First Guest editor Skin Diver Magazine-" 1968 (?)
Subject "Sign Post to Safety" (AKA the red & white dive flag)
(encouraged divers every where to display and to popularize the divers flag)
* I authored description for USCG Auxiliary
* Included in Chapmans book Small boat handling
(There is little resemblance to my description and what was published - and is possibly still us after almost 65 years )
Dive Training Magazine (Collen Bondy) Two articles on Dive flag -1990s
* Ted Nixon had been deceased for several years
* Florida dive operator claims credit for dive flag
(Absolutely NO documents substanuation the claim)
Who's who in SCUBA Diving A book published in 1993 listing prominent diving personages (so far as can be verified I am the only SB member listed )
Once again
* Florida dive operator claims credit for dive flag
(Once again absolutely NO documents substanuation the claim)
Consulted on disputed ownership of red & white dive flag
1988 New England,,,Ownership of the Red & white flag disputed...
* 18 months of research and consolation
* Absolutely NO documents to substanuation of the claim of the Florida dive operator as the Father of the flag
* Judgement -Red and white dive flag was now in public domain- no ownership
Numerous presentations and consultations to industry and the private sector
Program - 2014- History of the red & white dive flag
* SLO UW S&R DivCon
* The SCUBA show
* I was honored with the SCUBA Service Award the same year
(Google the award & Dr. Samuel Miller)
I met with local officials We now have permanent dive flag posting at all my local beaches
DEMA develops 2015 dive flag awareness program
* three different sizes of white stripes on flags displayed in program
* two different sizes of flags ?????
(makes one question DEMAs historical knowledge of the dive flag)
( I have only seen the DEMA clip once - it seemed to have been pulled )
Novice members of the diving community often display their acceptance and involvement with their new found activity by proudly display a dive flag or some thing with a red back ground and some sort of a white stripe that faintly resembles a dive flag. Which is appreciated but if used in a tragic event and tested I a court of law would possibly be determined to be a useless rag hanging from a shaft
Others acknowledge the existence of the dive flag and the responsibility to display it during diving activities but they refuse to use it. Should they be struck by a boat they would have no legal recourse.
A large segment of our community acknowledge the flag is required and use it but complain that the flag is not recognized and certainly not appreciated as a symbol of diving. They are often the diver who is some where below the surface near the floating flag. BUT they do absolutely nothing to educate the public on the history and purpose of the flag that they as boaters should respect -
Just maybe you can utilize the information provided and during the winter months create a Divers Flag Awareness Program in your local area of influence..
All is well, sunny and warm in CenCal...
Its been fun ....
Cheers
Sam Miller, 111 \
PS -- Since you are now equinmed with this knowledge of the dive flags history
Ask your fuzzy faced UW -( SCUBA) instructor about the flag -- and note the blank stare
Rose Robinson
Contributor
Mr. Miller,
It's Robinson.
Interesting narrative, but, does not reference right side up/upside down diagonal stripe orientation change.
Positioning a red/white dive flag upside down, does not change the orientation of the diagonal white stripe.
To show a dive flag, indicating a ''distress signal'' would require a second flag, with the diagonal white stripe, right top, left bottom.
The ''second'' distress'' flag positioned upside down, does not change the orientation of the diagonal white stripe, still right top, left bottom.
So, you either had to carry two flags, or to show the ''distress signal'', with only one flag, you had to positioned it, with the horizontal being vertical, not upside down, and the flag would have to be grommet-ed or sleeved to allow you to do this.
Thankfully, with today's modern communication/location technology, neither is necessary.
Rose Robinson.
OP
Hogfxstxc
Registered
Price drop, 250.00
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