Frustration moving into/towards tech

[rddvet]

I admit that I didn't look at anything from GUE, as I have some fundamental things I don't care for about the agency and it's methodology as I understand it. While I think they have some great training for those who agree with them or have no feelings one way or the other about how they do things, some of their philosophy just isn't for me.

I would get that out of your head. Most of the things people don’t “like” about gue are usually based on some ancient history or based on complete misinformation. When I was at your level all I heard was gue was a douchey cult. Years later I wish I had gone the gue route or at least through fundies.

 

[wstorms]

I actually had a diver this past weekend ask me. “Wow, did you make that neck bungee yourself”.

Please tell me you didn't tie two fisherman's knots yourself?! Well actually I know you didn't because you surely would have died! Please, for everybody's safety, don't entertain crazy borderline suicidal ideas like that! ;-)

All kidding aside, I do think there is stuff you can safely self improve on, and other stuff that you do need formal training for.
Just because people had to invent stuff as they went back in the day, doesn't mean you should do it now. For me, the difference is based on whether or not you have done something before. So really basic skills like buoyancy that you have done during OWD or later classes, you can (should even) practice every dive. If something changes in your equipment, first adjust to that change and only then move on to change something else (like learning a new procedure during formal training).

Out of curiosity, what would you (OP) like to see in a non-tec "how to use doubles" course? And would the aim be to be comfortable with doubles asap, or would it introduce you to new stuff?

 

[barth]

I would get that out of your head. Most of the things people don’t “like” about gue are usually based on some ancient history or based on complete misinformation. When I was at your level all I heard was gue was a douchey cult. Years later I wish I had gone the gue route or at least through fundies.

If he is a solodiver it would be better if he wouldn't choose GUE...

 

[kensuf]

I know several people that teach intro to tech as a way to get people prepared for future in doubles. One of them just completed his ITT instructor evaluation with me, and while he's not a cave diver, he can help get you squared away. I'd be happy to send you his contact information if you like.

 

[Sevenrider860]

I am a PADI Tec Instructor. While PADI Tec40 can taught be in a non-standard technical configuration, Tec 45 and Tec 50 cannot. When I talk to customers about their future goals, that helps decide what configuration they will use in their Tec 40 class. When Tec 40 is taken in a technical configuration, you will learn to perform all the skills in doubles and to become comfortable diving with a set of double cylinders. It is not expected that you "learn on you own". There is also a Tec Basics Distinctive Specialty that is designed to teach the fundamental tec skills which include diving with doubles. This would be similar to an "Intro to Tec".

For a Tec 40 or a Tec Basics Distinctive Specialty, my expectation is that I am going to be teaching you how to become comfortable in a set of doubles and perform the skills as expected in "twin cylinders with dual manifold and isolator."

 

[seeker242]

and THEN instructors tell me that "intro to tech" isn't teaching doubles

That's just what you call a lazy instructor.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Wanna do it in doubles? Well, "go dive doubles for a while and figure it out on your own so you're comfortable and competent in them before showing up to class" seems to be the "answer". Now, having done the book portion of tec-40, I'm aware that diving doubles isn't just "having another tank" and "valve drills" etc are a thing... so why isn't there a class to teach this stuff to people like there is for sidemount?

I do not really see the difficulty of using a back mounted twin set.
When I started diving in 1975 the standard tank here was a 10+10 liters double, with double valves and reserve.
There was no octopus, you had two independent regs on two posts. And no SPG, but the reserve acted partially as a separator manifold, as it did close one of the tanks at pressure below 100 bars.
I did always find that a twin set of proper size (9+9l alu, 10+10l steel) is more streamlined and confortable than a fat 15 liters tank.
Learning to use two independent valves is trivial.
And nowadays the separation is also much easier to manage than using the reserve valve, as you simply have a central third valve which can be closed in the rare case you need to separate...
So I really do not see the problem. Rent a reasonably-sized twin set and dive normally...
At our times the max depth for recreational diving was 50m, now it is just 40m. And light deco was also standard for rec diving, providing that the dive plan did not require any gas additional to the back tank.
So we did use a 10+10l twin set. But now, with 40m and NDL limits, just rent a 7+7 liters, 232 bars tank: you will get slightly more air than with the standard 15l, 200bar single, in a much more streamlined and lighter package. With it, you will learn how easy is to dive doubles...

 

[boulderjohn]

Various agencies have different ideas of what a valve drill is and how long it’s going to take. It varies a lot.

This is perhaps the most understated post in the history of ScubaBoard.

 

[ls23]

I do not really see the difficulty of using a back mounted twin set.

You would think so. Doubles are really popular here even amongst recreational divers and the usual suspect who just bought a set and went diving without any proper mentoring or instruction almost always looks the same: tanks moved high because they thought that would make them reach their valves better -> top heavy -> sea horse trim to compensate.

 

[jlcnuke]

Please tell me you didn't tie two fisherman's knots yourself?! Well actually I know you didn't because you surely would have died! Please, for everybody's safety, don't entertain crazy borderline suicidal ideas like that! ;-)

All kidding aside, I do think there is stuff you can safely self improve on, and other stuff that you do need formal training for.
Just because people had to invent stuff as they went back in the day, doesn't mean you should do it now. For me, the difference is based on whether or not you have done something before. So really basic skills like buoyancy that you have done during OWD or later classes, you can (should even) practice every dive. If something changes in your equipment, first adjust to that change and only then move on to change something else (like learning a new procedure during formal training).

Out of curiosity, what would you (OP) like to see in a non-tec "how to use doubles" course? And would the aim be to be comfortable with doubles asap, or would it introduce you to new stuff?

Keeping in mind that "I don't know what I don't know", I can surmise that things such as proper set up of tanks and positioning, hose routing, handing leaks in various locations, etc would all be things that I think would be nice to have training on from someone knowledgeable and experienced in the configuration instead of just "figuring it out on your own". Sure, it probably wouldn't be a 5 day class or anything, but neither is a drysuit class or sidemount etc.