My Dundies, or can I get “fundies style” education?

[axluba]

Hi, I’m a young diver (as in very little diving experience), minted last winter in a cold dark northern German lake.

I am kicking around an idea to improve my level and would welcome opinions and feedbacks on the following (sorry, English isn’t my mother tong):

I slowly practice my skills in different places (Germany, Brittany, Cote d’Azur...) and I believe that I am doing ok based on OW standard which, to me, means: I am not drowning, I am not ending up OOA, I manage to not kick anything with my fins, I can shoot an SMB without shooting myself up with it and I manage to position myself approximately where I want in the water column. I have around 30 dives and I continue to practice as much as I can.

Now when I do something I like to do it the best I can and to that end, when I am not diving I am doing some research (within and out of this board). I read about decompression theories, different gears and trainings available. While doing so, I came across the G.U.E and all the reports about their Fundamentals. It seems fairly demanding but it is also somehow close to what am looking for (or so I think)! A challenging course that focus on getting the basics as good as possible.

Now seems like a good time for a few precisions:

• I am not looking to become the best diver around but simply the best diver I can be in order to enjoy my hobby safely.
• I am not interested in tech diving (or at least not at this moment)
• I am not interested in a cert card (it will be relevant later)

Here is WHY I am attracted by a “Fundies” education:

1. It seems very complete
2. I like the structure (1 full intense week) and the content (as seen from the reports)
3. I like the seemingly uniform education across the globe (see next point)
4. As a new diver it’s hard to choose a potential instructor and going with G.U.E looks like a good way to ensure a high standard education
5. I think it could be an amazing experience with my dive buddy (and girlfriend)
6. I like the idea of a challenging course that will bring me as high as my poor capacities will allow it.
7. It seems to be one of the golden standard around the industry

By now you are probably asking yourself why am I bantering about that… take the damn course and shut up already, (come get some likes by writing your report if you want and get on with your life!!) And I don’t blame you!

But there is a “but”. After reading several reports I am “pretty sure” that I cannot comply with GUE equipment standards. I am disabled (no left and) and my gear configuration differs from the GUE ways:

• I don’t separate my spool and SMB (assembling them in water with one hand is a PITA and honestly it makes no sense for me…)
• I flip my wing in order to get my inflator hose on the right side (I can live with the inflator on the left side but not with the butt dump on the left, and once again it would make zero sense for me)
• In order to unclutter my right side I dive with my primary hose under the right arm and straight up to my mouth with an elbow and my secondary (short hose) on a necklace but on the left side. (I think I could accommodate a standard GUE hose routing fairly easily but it wouldn’t be optimum for me as it would really clutter the right side)
• Of course, no lights holding in the left hand XD
• Probably other things that I don’t even know about

So obviously, while I could tinker in order to get closer to the GUE standard it would, one, not be ideal for me and two never be exactly the GUE configuration, so why bother?

Now the reason why I am writing this today is more to ask about what could be possible in term of training format.

I know that ultimately, asking one instructor in my area is the thing to do, and I will but I am not sure on what to ask and I hope to get some input to help me define more accurately what I want or what I should ask for.

(As a side note: I have personally no problems with GUE ethos or standardized system this is not a post whining about the rigidity of GUE system but a genuine attempt at finding a solution and if it is not possible I will just go on happily with my diving and other training ways)

As it stands now here is:

What I would like:

• A great challenging training on the basics of scuba diving
• A certain insurance on the quality of the training
• The GUE high standards and High expectation
• The 1 week course structure
• The GUE literature and theory

What I don’t want:

• Missing out on great training because of my disability
• Being forced to choose a less than optimal configuration just to access the training (I’m trying my best to be a thinking diver)
• A pass/card (seriously... I couldn't care less)

Basically I’d love to get my dundies (for Disabled Fundies). Where an instructor would agree to give me a great training, as close as possible to what fundies are, except for the parts impacted by my disability and the specific configuration. With no pass/card possible at the end

I am not sure if it is possible, I don’t know if I can get the literature or if a GUE instructor is allowed to teach me the class if I cannot comply with the configuration.

Maybe something like a personal coaching? But in that case maybe we couldn’t use the GUE material/structure?

I think I want the GUE education because it seems to be highly regarded in the industry and to provide an enticing class structure but should I even care about the GUE material/education if I can’t follow their standards to the T?

I would be willing to pay what said instructor charges for regular fundies and I really don’t care about getting a pass or not.

I also don’t know if in that case my girlfriend could, her, get a pass (if she cares)?

I would welcome any input on this (regardless if those are facts or opinions). It’s an idea I’m kicking around and that I wouldn’t apply before next spring an some more diving anyway.

To conclude: keep in mind that I don’t know what I don’t know… Maybe I am making knots for nothing, or maybe it is actually impossible and I am just dreaming wide awake (don't hesitate to let me know either way)I swear I won't cry ! I (think I) know that GUE standards are pretty tight but also that instructions can sometimes be tailored.


What do you think?


Thank you if you were brave enough to read me and even more if you take the time to answer

 

[NothingClever]

Brother, you might not know it but you’re already an awesome diver.

You’re well on track with your ambition, focus and diligence to develop your skills to support your goals. To be honest, with a few dozen more dives doing single-handed DSMB deployments and controlling your buoyancy, you could probably teach a GUE instructor something. They’re not super-human and it is easily possible to be a bombproof diver without being a GUE graduate. My first dive with a GUE graduate left a horrible impression on me. Prior to that guy getting on the boat, I had a high opinion of GUE’s mission and ethos and I thought “GUE’s for me. These are the people I want to dive with!”. Anyways, nice guy but really unimpressive dive skills and not a guy I felt I could count on if there were problems. GUE fell from its vaunted pedestal of über-Tauchen.

Look around for an instructor with a comprehensive resumé, one who has experience in technical diving but also training divers with disabilities...they’re out there.

I just had dinner last night with a very senior, accomplished diver who could run circles around a GUE zealot but what lit up his eyes was a story about a single-arm diver he trained back in February.

I’m not suggesting the technical background to push you into that diving realm but because I think the instructor is much more likely to have a tighter focus on procedures, skills and standards that you will appreciate. Purely recreational instructors are less likely to imbue their instruction with the tighter focus you’re hungry for. Not impossible, just harder to find amongst instructors who are focused on basic and advanced OW divers.

I think you’re on track. Keep up the great work!

 

[elgoog]

You can definitely do coaching with GUE instructors that's not a formal class - you just pay the daily rate. You'd still be learning the GUE system so I don't think they're going to teach you something vastly different than you would in a class but I don't know.

Class or not, I'd recommend contacting a few GUE instructors and see what they have to say about the adjustments. @johnkendall is pretty active on here and could get you some more definitive info about pursuing this path.

 

[NothingClever]

@axluba - @elgoog provides excellent counterpoint.

 

[lowwall]

To figure out where you want to go it might help to realize there are two related, but distinct, families of skills in advanced diving.

First are the personal skills, the most important of which is buoyancy control. They also include kicks and your basic OW stuff stuff like mask clearing, reg recovery, DSMB deploys - again while controlling buoyancy. Navigation goes here too.

The next set is advanced buddy or team skills. The roots of GUE are in the development of a set of skills that allowed a group of divers to seamlessly work with each other in technical (overhead) conditions. The insistence on a standard gear configuration is one results of this focus. It's not because it is always the best setup for every individual diver, but it allows the other members of the team to immediately assist you with your equipment or use it themselves.

It is my understanding that fundies covers both sets of skills. But I suggest you look for an instructor or work by yourself on just the personal set for now. You obviously need to think through how you are going to accomplish basic buddy tasks, but the advanced team/buddy stuff can wait until you decide what kind of advanced diving you wish to do. Hopefully by then you'll have found an instructor or advanced divers who can help you figure out and practice techniques that work for you.

None of this needs to be in the context of a formal class or certification, instructors are mostly happy to teach at an hourly rate. If you do want to do it within a class, perhaps search around for a Peak Performance Buoyancy or equivalent class.

As a final thought. What you are really looking for in an instructor is not any particular agency or certification, but someone with varied experience and who is flexible enough to come up with techniques that work for you. Stay away from anyone who insists that there is only one right answer to any question.

 

[axluba]

Brother, you might not know it but you’re already an awesome diver.

You’re well on track with your ambition, focus and diligence to develop your skills to support your goals. To be honest, with a few dozen more dives doing single-handed DSMB deployments and controlling your buoyancy, you could probably teach a GUE instructor something. They’re not super-human and it is easily possible to be a bombproof diver without being a GUE graduate. My first dive with a GUE graduate left a horrible impression on me. Prior to that guy getting on the boat, I had a high opinion of GUE’s mission and ethos and I thought “GUE’s for me. These are the people I want to dive with!”. Anyways, nice guy but really unimpressive dive skills and not a guy I felt I could count on if there were problems. GUE fell from its vaunted pedestal of über-Tauchen.

Look around for an instructor with a comprehensive resumé, one who has experience in technical diving but also training divers with disabilities...they’re out there.

I just had dinner last night with a very senior, accomplished diver who could run circles around a GUE zealot but what lit up his eyes was a story about a single-arm diver he trained back in February.

I’m not suggesting the technical background to push you into that diving realm but because I think the instructor is much more likely to have a tighter focus on procedures, skills and standards that you will appreciate. Purely recreational instructors are less likely to imbue their instruction with the tighter focus you’re hungry for. Not impossible, just harder to find amongst instructors who are focused on basic and advanced OW divers.

I think you’re on track. Keep up the great work!

Thank you for the kind words! I am definitely going to keep working at it and look around. I am not adamant on following the G.U.E path, especially because ultimately I won't be able to comply to their standard.
the reason why I am attracted by the Fundies is because it's an "easy" way to find what I am looking for (the tighter focus you are referring to). Just because they are offering (and advertising) just that! instead of looking around for an instructor that has the comprehensive resumé and then explain to him what I want.

an other point is that as a disabled person people are almost always less exigent with me compared to others, and it makes sense for some things (I suck at juggling for example ) but they also let up for stuff where my handicap has nothing to do (my trim, or buoyancy for example). and the fundies seems to be very strict with that so I figured it could work.

That being said I'll definitely keep looking for an instructor, regardless of G.U.E that will help me (I'm sure I'm going to find one).

You can definitely do coaching with GUE instructors that's not a formal class - you just pay the daily rate. You'd still be learning the GUE system so I don't think they're going to teach you something vastly different than you would in a class but I don't know.

Class or not, I'd recommend contacting a few GUE instructors and see what they have to say about the adjustments. @johnkendall is pretty active on here and could get you some more definitive info about pursuing this path.

of course, I WILL contact a GUE instructor regardless. the goal of that post was more to get an idea on what is or isn't possible within G.U.E before I dig deeper. And if I find what I want outside of this organization I am fine too!

To figure out where you want to go it might help to realize there are two related, but distinct, families of skills in advanced diving.

First are the personal skills, the most important of which is buoyancy control. They also include kicks and your basic OW stuff stuff like mask clearing, reg recovery, DSMB deploys - again while controlling buoyancy. Navigation goes here too.

The next set is advanced buddy or team skills. The roots of GUE are in the development of a set of skills that allowed a group of divers to seamlessly work with each other in technical (overhead) conditions. The insistence on a standard gear configuration is one results of this focus. It's not because it is always the best setup for every individual diver, but it allows the other members of the team to immediately assist you with your equipment or use it themselves.

It is my understanding that fundies covers both sets of skills. But I suggest you look for an instructor or work by yourself on just the personal set for now. You obviously need to think through how you are going to accomplish basic buddy tasks, but the advanced team/buddy stuff can wait until you decide what kind of advanced diving you wish to do. Hopefully by then you'll have found an instructor or advanced divers who can help you figure out and practice techniques that work for you.

None of this needs to be in the context of a formal class or certification, instructors are mostly happy to teach at an hourly rate. If you do want to do it within a class, perhaps search around for a Peak Performance Buoyancy or equivalent class.

As a final thought. What you are really looking for in an instructor is not any particular agency or certification, but someone with varied experience and who is flexible enough to come up with techniques that work for you. Stay away from anyone who insists that there is only one right answer to any question.

I don't need for it to be a class, you are right! I just want to get better at diving, as I stated above the GUE seemed to be an easily found answer to that request. I think that there is a split possible with Fundamentals part 1 and part 2.

for the disability itself I still have to figure out a lot but as you said, it's kind of an different topic from getting better on the "first" set of skills

as a side note an other attractive stuff in the fundies was the fact that all those skills are practiced in OW depth!

a lot of "more advanced" class have, as one of the objective, to go deeper. (for example FFESSM (French federation...) the level 2 will bring you at 40m) which I'm not interested in yet (I have ear weaknesses).

anyway I will look for a more personal approach. However I am still interested to get some input on what could be or not possible on the GUE side. just to have all the options.

 

[johnkendall]

I'd be happy to have a chat offline. Drop me an email John "at" GUE "dot" com

I can't say yes, or no to whether you could take GUE training, but I'm happy to have a chat about specifics, and see what can be arranged.

Thanks
John

 

[kelemvor]

If GUE decides they can't make an accommodation then here are some alternatives:

You might want to check out RAID. Believe it or not, they don't sell hard drives. They're another dive training agency. My impression is that they're somewhat similar to GUE without all the restrictions on gear. I might be wrong, as I've never personally taken one of their classes. Probably worth a phone call to one of their instructors.

There's also UTD but they've got some hoakey decompression non-algorithm that they use which makes them hard to recommend. I think they are similar to GUE in many respects. Both used to be called DIR before they abandoned the term. I have talked to several divers with a handicap who have trained with them.

 

[axluba]

I'd be happy to have a chat offline. Drop me an email John "at" GUE "dot" com

I can't say yes, or no to whether you could take GUE training, but I'm happy to have a chat about specifics, and see what can be arranged.

Thanks
John

I will certainly do that! it is very nice of you!

If GUE decides they can't make an accommodation then here are some alternatives:

You might want to check out RAID. Believe it or not, they don't sell hard drives. They're another dive training agency. My impression is that they're somewhat similar to GUE without all the restrictions on gear. I might be wrong, as I've never personally taken one of their classes. Probably worth a phone call to one of their instructors.

There's also UTD but they've got some hoakey decompression non-algorithm that they use which makes them hard to recommend. I think they are similar to GUE in many respects. Both used to be called DIR before they abandoned the term. I have talked to several divers with a handicap who have trained with them.

I did look at both RAID and UTD but "funny enough" both agency have nothing in Germany of France which would be my two preferred locations. But I am not writing them off either as I will still be open to the "find a good instructor and take 1 on 1" path. I will explore all options added to the gue one

 

[swimlikethefish]

I have a friend from Germany whom sought certain certifications from here. He has had nothing but excellent things to say. I'm not advertising, just trying to help you with options.

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Wish you well in your endeavors!