Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[Jafo19D]

On most of my dives the crews insist on taking all your stuff, BCD, weights and fins before you climb aboard. I could climb a ladder with all my gear but maybe it's because they don't want people with all that stuff on stumbling around and hurting another diver

 

[ofg-1]

If you are sinking the boat you are on just so you can dive an unexplored wreck, then yes, you are doing it wrong.

 

[Ayisha]

...some days getting out with a single tank and dry suit weighting is a struggle. Not because I’m not strong enough to climb the ladder, but because I’m short, and Great Lakes dive boats are designed for tall men. That last step, when my legs aren’t long enough to reach the swim platform readily and my arms aren’t long enough to reach a handle for stability, is tricky, and I usually require a hand, literally, so I don’t end up back in the drink...

Yes I have noticed the ladder spaces/handrails issue too. Some people designing the ladders don’t seem to think about diver height. It’s not all about strength, it’s also about reach...

I feel both of you. I have the same issue at the top step on some boats where I cannot even stretch to reach the nearest hold and there is nothing to grasp to pull myself up. In that case, the captain/first mate has grabbed my valve and helped me get off that step, and once I can grasp something, I get myself on the rest of the way (although I'm sure they're still holding my valve ).

Around here, tech or rec, it is common for a captain or first mate to assist a diver getting on as necessary, and walk a diver back to their seat safely.

I did my O/W and most early boat dives on the Joseph Simon with a lift on Tobermory, and that was awesome. The Helen C in Brockville has the easiest swim steps to get back on the boat. The AMG is very well designed for divers of any height. They're awesome!

 

[Stoo]

Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others..

Nope not so. Tech divers come in lots of sizes. Tech gear doesn't really. Some of the kick-assest (?) divers I know are women who weigh about 110 pounds. There is no way that someone that size should be expected to haul doubles or a RB and two or more stages up a ladder. That's an attitude from the dark ages and is probably unwittingly misogynistic. Even a set of small doubles like steel 80s which may be manageable on their own become unwieldy for some when you start adding stages, can lights and so on. "Forcing" a weenie soul to climb a ladder like that is inviting decompression sickness, strained knees, wrenched backs and potentially much worse. A face-plant onto a steel deck while someone is wearing more than they weigh in gear is going to result in serious injury.

From a safety perspective, I agree that there could potentially be a situation where a "feather-weight" might need to get back on the boat on their own, but I would have to stretch to think of a legitimate one. There's almost always going to someone (crew or fellow passenger) who can grab a stage/deco bottle. I suppose in some oddball situation, if there really wasn't anyone, you dump the gear, and go back to get it another day (or claim it on your insurance).

Yesterday, I dove on a wreck that was 215' deep. Double HP 130s, two 80 cf deco bottles, and a 30 pound camera. No way I am going to try to get that all up on my own...I didn't live to get this old by being a dumb-ass.

The same argument applies to people who may have chronic health issues like a bad back, or twisted knees. A helping hand to hoist a tank in or take someone's fins is always a reasonable thing to do.

I should add that I heard a presentation from a researcher at DCIEM a couple of years ago about the importance of remaining quiet for a while (specifically, 71 minutes following a max NDL dive to 70') to avoid an "unearned" hit. For robust tech dive needing a bunch of deco, doing the minimal amount of lifting should be considered SOP.

 

[shoredivr]

Nope not so. Tech divers come in lots of sizes. Tech gear doesn't really. Some of the kick-assest (?) divers I know are women who weigh about 110 pounds. There is no way that someone that size should be expected to haul doubles or a RB and two or more stages up a ladder. That's an attitude from the dark ages and is probably unwittingly misogynistic. Even a set of small doubles like steel 80s which may be manageable on their own become unwieldy for some when you start adding stages, can lights and so on. "Forcing" a weenie soul to climb a ladder like that is inviting decompression sickness, strained knees, wrenched backs and potentially much worse. A face-plant onto a steel deck while someone is wearing more than they weigh in gear is going to result in serious injury.

From a safety perspective, I agree that there could potentially be a situation where a "feather-weight" might need to get back on the boat on their own, but I would have to stretch to think of a legitimate one. There's almost always going to someone (crew or fellow passenger) who can grab a stage/deco bottle. I suppose in some oddball situation, if there really wasn't anyone, you dump the gear, and go back to get it another day (or claim it on your insurance).

Yesterday, I dove on a wreck that was 215' deep. Double HP 130s, two 80 cf deco bottles, and a 30 pound camera. No way I am going to try to get that all up on my own...I didn't live to get this old by being a dumb-ass.

The same argument applies to people who may have chronic health issues like a bad back, or twisted knees. A helping hand to hoist a tank in or take someone's fins is always a reasonable thing to do.

I should add that I heard a presentation from a researcher at DCIEM a couple of years ago about the importance of remaining quiet for a while (specifically, 71 minutes following a max NDL dive to 70') to avoid an "unearned" hit. For robust tech dive needing a bunch of deco, doing the minimal amount of lifting should be considered SOP.

That’s the part I don’t understand: it’s a fact that exercise after diving, especially deco diving, can trigger a DCS incident. Why on earth would one want to tempt this? (Scratches head)

 

[rjack321]

Nope not so. Tech divers come in lots of sizes. Tech gear doesn't really. Some of the kick-assest (?) divers I know are women who weigh about 110 pounds. There is no way that someone that size should be expected to haul doubles or a RB and two or more stages up a ladder. That's an attitude from the dark ages and is probably unwittingly misogynistic. Even a set of small doubles like steel 80s which may be manageable on their own become unwieldy for some when you start adding stages, can lights and so on. "Forcing" a weenie soul to climb a ladder like that is inviting decompression sickness, strained knees, wrenched backs and potentially much worse. A face-plant onto a steel deck while someone is wearing more than they weigh in gear is going to result in serious injury.

From a safety perspective, I agree that there could potentially be a situation where a "feather-weight" might need to get back on the boat on their own, but I would have to stretch to think of a legitimate one. There's almost always going to someone (crew or fellow passenger) who can grab a stage/deco bottle. I suppose in some oddball situation, if there really wasn't anyone, you dump the gear, and go back to get it another day (or claim it on your insurance).

The thread was instigated by some posts elsewhere suggesting that someone who couldn't climb a ladder with just a small set of doubles on (80s, or 100s etc) should somehow be accommodated with a davit and/or removing their gear in the water, or retrofitting the boat with a lift. In my world you are expected to have a minimum level of aptitude and fitness and this would be below that level.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

The thread was instigated by some posts elsewhere suggesting that someone who couldn't climb a ladder with just a small set of doubles on (80s, or 100s etc) should somehow be accommodated with a davit and/or removing their gear in the water, or retrofitting the boat with a lift. In my world you are expected to have a minimum level of aptitude and fitness and this would be below that level.

Thank you for reminding everyone of the initiation of this thread and the context for my post that has frequently been quoted without the proper context of this whole discussion.

 

[Stoo]

In my world you are expected to have a minimum level of aptitude and fitness and this would be below that level.

So you don't have any women in "your world"? How sad.

I had the pleasure of diving with a world-renowned female diver last summer (who I won't name without her permission). We completed a series of 200'+ dives where she used a jumbo rebreather, slung two 80s, a large camera system, and had a bunch of remote lights clipped to her harness. If this woman weighs 120 pounds, I'd be shocked. And while I don't know you @rjack321 I'd wager the deed to my house in Tobermory that she would out-dive you by a factor of six minimum.

Your attitude is really outdated. As in cave-dwelling outdated. Dude it's 2020. Women dive. Get used to it. Some will need a hand getting their kit up the ladder. If you can manage to tuck your massive balls out of the way, maybe it could be you helping them. They might even treat you to ice-cream for your chivalry. ;-)

 

[Stoo]

That’s the part I don’t understand: it’s a fact that exercise after diving, especially deco diving, can trigger a DCS incident. Why on earth would one want to tempt this? (Scratches head)

Because sadly, testosterone is still a major ingredient in tech diving.

 

[Dark Wolf]

Because sadly, testosterone is still a major ingredient in tech diving.

Maybe it's just me, but I was always taught "plan for the worst, hope for the best".

As was stated, this isn't about a helping hand. It is about being literally drug back onto the boat. That is a big difference, in my mind. If you can't get back on the boat with just a helping hand in normal conditions, what is going to happen when everything goes completely FUBAR?

DW