Boat diving.Do we have it all wrong?!

[grantctobin]

So you don't have any women in "your world"? How sad.

I had the pleasure of diving with a world-renowned female diver last summer (who I won't name without her permission). We completed a series of 200'+ dives where she used a jumbo rebreather, slung two 80s, a large camera system, and had a bunch of remote lights clipped to her harness. If this woman weighs 120 pounds, I'd be shocked. And while I don't know you @rjack321 I'd wager the deed to my house in Tobermory that she would out-dive you by a factor of six minimum.

Your attitude is really outdated. As in cave-dwelling outdated. Dude it's 2020. Women dive. Get used to it. Some will need a hand getting their kit up the ladder. If you can manage to tuck your massive balls out of the way, maybe it could be you helping them. They might even treat you to ice-cream for your chivalry. ;-)

I’d imagine RJack has spent some time diving with her. If only you could be held to your wager. I think you’re more than a bit off base mate.

 

[lermontov]

So you don't have any women in "your world"? How sad.

I had the pleasure of diving with a world-renowned female diver last summer (who I won't name without her permission). We completed a series of 200'+ dives where she used a jumbo rebreather, slung two 80s, a large camera system, and had a bunch of remote lights clipped to her harness. If this woman weighs 120 pounds, I'd be shocked. And while I don't know you @rjack321 I'd wager the deed to my house in Tobermory that she would out-dive you by a factor of six minimum.

Your attitude is really outdated. As in cave-dwelling outdated. Dude it's 2020. Women dive. Get used to it. Some will need a hand getting their kit up the ladder. If you can manage to tuck your massive balls out of the way, maybe it could be you helping them. They might even treat you to ice-cream for your chivalry. ;-)

Im sure he can speak fro himself but actually he was referencing a diver that was below in his view MINIMUM LEVEL of aptitude and fitness -presumably that covers male and female -you are the one introducing gender

 

[Stoo]

Maybe it's just me, but I was always taught "plan for the worst, hope for the best".

As was stated, this isn't about a helping hand. It is about being literally drug back onto the boat. That is a big difference, in my mind. If you can't get back on the boat with just a helping hand in normal conditions, what is going to happen when everything goes completely FUBAR?

DW

Then people strip gear off the person that's having a bad day. I've seen it happen a few times in my time diving, and it really isn't a big deal.

Applying your standard, it sounds like only 6'. 220# body builders should be engaged in tech-diving. I'm sorry, but I find that laughable.

Maybe I am misunderstanding... Are you suggesting that we should all be climbing back on board with our twin 130s, two slung 80s and camera? If so, that's not only ridiculous, it's dangerous as @shoredivr pointed out a few posts ago.

As a minimum, it sounds like perhaps you agree that having someone pass up their stages and miscellaneous stuff and hump their doubles or RB up the ladder. That's a reasonable ask, and I would only add that lending a hand on a pitching deck would go a long way in avoiding potential injury.

 

[Stoo]

-you are the one introducing gender

Only because women are typically much smaller and have less muscle mass than men do. At least they do around here.

My arguments apply to smaller guys as well.

All of this assumes (to be clear) that I am talking about people of smaller stature, and so less muscle strength. I am NOT talking about chain-smoking, obese individuals who can barely lift their own weight off the bench. One of my personal standards is that if you're too obese to put your fins on, I'd prefer not to dive with you, even though I've known some excellent, "well-rounded" divers. My concern is always that I don't want to add the likely health issues found in obese individuals to a complex situation when things do go FUBAR.

 

[elgoog]

Then people strip gear off the person that's having a bad day. I've seen it happen a few times in my time diving, and it really isn't a big deal.

You are absolutely right and this is the right thing to do. However, the original premise of this thread was not the above but someone needing help each and every time, regardless of the conditions.

Maybe I am misunderstanding...

I would say yes.

Are you suggesting that we should all be climbing back on board with our twin 130s, two slung 80s and camera?

No but this thread has been repeatedly pushed in this direction by those trying to prove a point and to show something dangerous is being implied to be the requirement for tech diving (and, hence, reserved for the macho elites) as opposed to the minimum mentioned below.

As a minimum, it sounds like perhaps you agree that having someone pass up their stages and miscellaneous stuff and hump their doubles or RB up the ladder. That's a reasonable ask, and I would only add that lending a hand on a pitching deck would go a long way in avoiding potential injury.

This is the crux of the argument and what has repeatedly been described as the "minimum competency" (most recently by @rjack321). Again, needing help even with this, on pitching decks or if someone is having a bad day, is totally normal but shouldn't be the norm. If it is the norm, then you need to find a very accommodating boat crew. Which, again, was one of the original topics of this thread and the one that preceded it.

 

[Dark Wolf]

Then people strip gear off the person that's having a bad day. I've seen it happen a few times in my time diving, and it really isn't a big deal.

Applying your standard, it sounds like only 6'. 220# body builders should be engaged in tech-diving. I'm sorry, but I find that laughable.

Maybe I am misunderstanding... Are you suggesting that we should all be climbing back on board with our twin 130s, two slung 80s and camera? If so, that's not only ridiculous, it's dangerous as @shoredivr pointed out a few posts ago.

As a minimum, it sounds like perhaps you agree that having someone pass up their stages and miscellaneous stuff and hump their doubles or RB up the ladder. That's a reasonable ask, and I would only add that lending a hand on a pitching deck would go a long way in avoiding potential injury.

My standard was "plan for the worst, hope for the best". I never said anything about body size, that is an assumption on your part.

Maybe it is a two part issue. I may not have been clear enough, and possibly some misunderstanding on your part. Plan for the worst means just that. If you know you can't get up the ladder, then you plan for it. Need a line to clip things off, no problem. Need to book two seats on the boat so that you have a personal tender, no problem. But here is the rub, she was not carrying stage bottles and camera's. And at least one crew member has already been injured from having to (repeatedly) physically drag them back onto the boat.

Your third point, in regards to handing things up. It has, according to the boat, been said she cannot hand bottles up.

Your last point I agree with. However, it sounds like you and I have a difference of opinion on what constitutes lending a hand. To me, having to be drug onto the boat is not lending a hand.

And finally, this is in NO way meant to be negative towards the person we are discussing. I left my last post a little bit vague so that it would not appear that I am dogpiling the particular person.

DW

 

[Celt]

There,s two totally different scenarios running through this tread. Boat diving and how a diver gets in and out. And the physical ability of a diver to get in and out. Also some people have personal knowledge relating to a specific diver and are using that where as others including myself are in the dark.

 

[KenGordon]

There,s two totally different scenarios running through this tread. Boat diving and how a diver gets in and out. And the physical ability of a diver to get in and out. Also some people have personal knowledge relating to a specific diver and are using that where as others including myself are in the dark.

The diver in question is a relatively short, stocky, 50 ish woman with knee and maybe lower body strength issues. She may or may not be able to get up a ladder in twin 10s.

US divers seem to be unaware/in denial about a number of ways they are badly served by the the boats/agency/shops and so you see reactions like “only wimps need lifts and wimps should not dive” rather than “lifts, what a good idea I will still be able to dive when I am 75”.

 

[Bert van den Berg]

Rec or Tec ... if you can’t get yourself and your gear back on the boat you shouldn’t be diving off that boat on that day. Otherwise it’s unsafe for yourself and others. If you can’t do it at all you shouldn’t be boat diving. That may seem harsh but no one HAS to dive. It’s a hobby and if you can’t do it self-sufficiently than you need to pick a different hobby.

Hi Jim,

You are so wrong. There are a huge number of us that love diving, are still capable of diving safely but can't physically lift oursleves and our gear out of the water. This does not mean that we have to stop diving.. Obviously we could just take our gear off in the water, climb up on the boat and pull the gear up after ourselves. Luckily most dive operators are more than happy to help us older divers.

I have seen paraplegic divers do their thing and need help. It is amazing to see this. Divers on wheelchairs getting help from the operators.

 

[bakodiver391]

As has been said previously, lifts are not an option on US flagged vessels because of government regulations. I have seen a 110 lb. petite woman rock a set of steel 108's. It's all about fitness level, not body type.