Herd Immunity in Indonesia

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Except in this discussion, it seems to be some younger folk having that problem.

Only time will tell

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Singapore will never get to that stage. We have very strict border controls, and testing in every part of the 40 square-mile country.

Are Indonesians allowed to travel to Singapore yet?
I heard something about Batam may be given exemption

 

[chillyinCanada]

Bali Officials Upset Over Tourists and Expats Who Refuse To Wear Masks - The Bali Sun

 

[Germie]

The coronavirus in the group is not new. It is just a cold, for animals there are vaccines, they have also problems with the animalvaccins. So no, you will not find with only mild symptoms or without symptoms any risks for later. And I have seen with some people I loved that life can be over in a few minutes. So better to live now than to wait, then it can be too late. Yes, I understand different opinions, but for me it is not needed to waiste time of life now as I am in the best period of my life.
For some others, waiting till normal life comes back, it will be too late.

But car accident deaths are counted as Covid around here. If the deceased had a positive test within 60 days of death, it is a covid positive death.

True, in a lot of countries the do this.

And why don't you see a lot of big problems with corona in the poor people groups like in India? That is because they have a better immumsystem because they don't use a lot of hygiene. This is not that I will promote of being not hygienic, but I believe that a strong immune system will help. When I travel to Asia for example, I start in the weeks before I go with eating some bread while working with my horse and dogs without washing hands. The strange or good thing is that I normally don't have problems and people who are using gels, etc the whole time get ill.
Using hand gels is not good. If you read research from a few years ago, they all state it. And now? They advice to wash your hands with these gels. Best is to use normal soap and normal hygiene, after toilet, before preparing food, etc, but not before entering every single shop.

In the numbers of my country you see a lot of new positives (I believe most are false positives), and the number of hospitalised and death are still low. So this means there is no reason anymore to be afraid. Also risks on long term are ********. Why? The coronavirusgroup is not new and animals and humans who had another strain also never had problems on long term if they had a mild infection. Our government states 98% of infections is without symptoms and only 0.035% get on ICU. These numbers are same as with influenza. Older people are more at a still small risk than younger and as with influenza, sometimes a younger person will die. Nothing new, nothing to worry about.
In March, yes, then you had more deads, so then taking some precautions was not bad. But now, we must go back to normal asap to safe lifes (suicides, other patiens like cancer), and safe the economy.
More and more people state that Sweden did the right way and from what I read here, Sweden will not get new problems again. They have more or less a form of herd immunity.
So yes, I will come back to Indonesia if that is opened normal again. And this is also without masks and distance. Our government has stated that masks won't help. This is true. Distance is not human, so bad for your immunesystem and bad for your complete well being. Not all countries do same, here 1.5m, others only 1. 1m feels more or less normal if you are not on a festival. So that is way much better.
Mainstream media all over the world wrote a lot of lies (also conspirancy theorists), and the virus is now more a politics question than a real danger. No government will say we did wrong. Elections are also part of the game here. Because you want to win again.
But as said, I don't know if Indonesia has problems in hospitals. I talk from what I see around me and yes, life sucks now and here no people ill, only maybe infected, but most will be false positive.
Also is already proven that outside, nobody will get infected. It is only inside if there is bad ventilationsystems. But open a window and also this is solved.
But as said, I don't know if it is bad in Indonesia now. But yes, I want to come back if that is possible.

 

[Indah]

He is correct. In some countries like Italy & Belgium, people that weren't even tested were counted as covid deaths. And it's on the record that Italy tallied anyone who died in a hospital where covid-19 patients were, as covid-19 deaths. Also, in reference to it's Covid-19 death toll:

Dr. Walter Ricciardi, the scientific adviser to Italy’s health minister, said last week.

“Only 12 percent of death certificates have shown a direct causality from coronavirus,” he said in a press conference.

I tried to find this. Without success.
In Belgium the excess mortality numbers speak for themselves.

 

[Indah]

The coronavirus in the group is not new. It is just a cold, for animals there are vaccines, they have also problems with the animalvaccins. So no, you will not find with only mild symptoms or without symptoms any risks for later. And I have seen with some people I loved that life can be over in a few minutes. So better to live now than to wait, then it can be too late. Yes, I understand different opinions, but for me it is not needed to waiste time of life now as I am in the best period of my life.
For some others, waiting till normal life comes back, it will be too late.

True, in a lot of countries the do this.

And why don't you see a lot of big problems with corona in the poor people groups like in India? That is because they have a better immumsystem because they don't use a lot of hygiene. This is not that I will promote of being not hygienic, but I believe that a strong immune system will help. When I travel to Asia for example, I start in the weeks before I go with eating some bread while working with my horse and dogs without washing hands. The strange or good thing is that I normally don't have problems and people who are using gels, etc the whole time get ill.
Using hand gels is not good. If you read research from a few years ago, they all state it. And now? They advice to wash your hands with these gels. Best is to use normal soap and normal hygiene, after toilet, before preparing food, etc, but not before entering every single shop.

In the numbers of my country you see a lot of new positives (I believe most are false positives), and the number of hospitalised and death are still low. So this means there is no reason anymore to be afraid. Also risks on long term are ********. Why? The coronavirusgroup is not new and animals and humans who had another strain also never had problems on long term if they had a mild infection. Our government states 98% of infections is without symptoms and only 0.035% get on ICU. These numbers are same as with influenza. Older people are more at a still small risk than younger and as with influenza, sometimes a younger person will die. Nothing new, nothing to worry about.
In March, yes, then you had more deads, so then taking some precautions was not bad. But now, we must go back to normal asap to safe lifes (suicides, other patiens like cancer), and safe the economy.
More and more people state that Sweden did the right way and from what I read here, Sweden will not get new problems again. They have more or less a form of herd immunity.
So yes, I will come back to Indonesia if that is opened normal again. And this is also without masks and distance. Our government has stated that masks won't help. This is true. Distance is not human, so bad for your immunesystem and bad for your complete well being. Not all countries do same, here 1.5m, others only 1. 1m feels more or less normal if you are not on a festival. So that is way much better.
Mainstream media all over the world wrote a lot of lies (also conspirancy theorists), and the virus is now more a politics question than a real danger. No government will say we did wrong. Elections are also part of the game here. Because you want to win again.
But as said, I don't know if Indonesia has problems in hospitals. I talk from what I see around me and yes, life sucks now and here no people ill, only maybe infected, but most will be false positive.
Also is already proven that outside, nobody will get infected. It is only inside if there is bad ventilationsystems. But open a window and also this is solved.
But as said, I don't know if it is bad in Indonesia now. But yes, I want to come back if that is possible.

Must be an amazing feeling to know so sure what is true about this pandemic. It is a very new virus and specialists who studied tenths of years in the many different fields of science which are related to these problems still have to say " probably " and " we do not know yet ". You are a diver, how much do we still not know about a "simple " illness such as decompression sickness? This is so much more complex. Not only the virus and the diseases it causes but also how to control it and all tenths of other worldwide problems.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

I tried to find this. Without success.
In Belgium the excess mortality numbers speak for themselves.

Indah please use due diligence when searching this as there are multiple reports on Italy. A suggestion Reuters, NBC, BBC etc

And as another member living in Belgium posted awhile back, that the death toll was completely inaccurate with some people being counted as dead multiple times, & some people who were still alive, were counted as dead. Excess mortality would have been affected directly by these serious errors

 

[chillyinCanada]

Indah please use due diligence when searching this as there are multiple reports on Italy. A suggestion Reuters, NBC, BBC etc

And as another member living in Belgium posted awhile back, that the death toll was completely inaccurate with some people being counted as dead multiple times, & some people who were still alive, were counted as dead. Excess mortality would have been affected directly by these serious errors

Does it matter?

Death is not the greatest fear.

 

[Germie]

Belgium and the Netherlands had an excess number of deaths in March and April. Then we had in the Netherlands an undernumber of deaths. This means that people who normally die only died a few weeks earlier. Sad for that people. But not different from an influenza epedidemic, or in eldery homes a norovirus illness.
Also you see more people dying if the temperature is high. This was the case in august here.
NIVEL, a dutch institute did not had corona anymore in their samples since april till at least beginning of september. I haven't checked their numbers in the last weeks.
There is no excess deadrate anymore here.

 

[DownUnderwater Dan]

Does it matter?

Death is not the greatest fear.

Death is the greatest primordial fear of humans, so yes, it absolutely does MATTER

Let's be perfectly honest here, if I was to make the same comments as you, ie "Does it matter? Death is not the greatest fear" , I would be berated by a barrage of "pro-covid" supporters