Who "Fails" Open Water Scuba Certification and why

[TMHeimer]

I think most adult swimmers never learned to kick correctly. Most adult swimmers don't really swim for recreation--they go out in the water and bob around awhile. Go to a beach and see how many people you see in the water swimming. Only a tiny percentage of people go out and truly swim.

Agree. Maybe step one to be explained in OW should be "keep legs straight, move up & down".

But again, if I were one of these majority of adults, my first step may be to learn how to swim, then scuba (ideally with snorkeling in between).

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

When scuba started most of the people using the new technology were already skin divers and diving in the ocean as @Sam Miller III could probably attest to when this great sport was born in Kalifornia.
Scuba just gave them another tool to stay down longer and get more fish. That was before the big marketing campaign that claimed scuba was easy and anyone could do it. Along side this new sales explosion more and more tropical resorts began to spring up to accommodate all those new divers and before we knew it recreational diving enjoyed by the whole family was born.
Add technological advances and design enhancements to gear making it more comfortable and user friendly and you opened the door whole new group of people who can now enjoy scuba diving much better.
But the comfort in the water and swimming part still doesn’t go away.
Since there seem to be fewer and fewer people who are competent swimmers I heard some of the agencies made the swim optional and replaced it with the snorkel fin swim. Is that true?
I can see how people would be swimming less since so many public pools have shut down and swimming is rarely taught in high school PE classes anymore, at least in California. People don’t swim because they don’t have easy access to pools, as simple as that. Probably all liability and lawsuit related.

 

[Angelo Farina]

Non instructor here.

What has surprised me in this thread is the number of stories about students who sign up for an OW course and cannot swim and are uncomfortable on the surface let alone underwater.

I know that swimming skills are not all that important in diving but I would think that a high degree of comfort in the water would be something everyone who wants to be a diver has.

Do people think that becoming a diver will help them get over their fear of the water?

Yes, this is what some students think. And it is actually true...
When I was teaching in a club (years 1978-1984) we had a number of students who started being entirely uncapable of swimming, and even floating, and afraid of entering water. They did first follow the "aquaticity" course, lasting three months (oct-nov-december), and than started the 6-months long open-water course (January to June). At the end of June, after 9 months of intensive training, they were decent divers, good swimmers, and any fear was disappeared.
With "normal" swimming courses one never gets such a confidence in his capabilities, the same degree of control on his breathing and body motion, and the theoretical knowledge explaining what is happening in his body (and his brains) when submerged by water.
Problem is when people think that this is also possible with today's two-days OW courses...

 

[Centrals]

There are many reasons why someone failed to achieve the required level!
Some one can pass a driving test on the first time while others might require several times! But I am sure the person who passed on the first time is NO more better driver than someone who had failed many times!


Albert Einstein

 

[XfiXit]

Freshly certified here, we got around 8 OW dives on our log right now. But i wonder if this one student even ended there course.

We had a student in our OW diving course, four people in total. My gf, myself and the other guy were very serious on or course.

We did 4 theory classes, eventually due to COVID 7 pooldives and 4 OW dives.

The first two theory classes took ages... Said student did not do the homework, she had not even opened the package the books and tables came in before coming into class. During explaining the physics in-depth and walking through said homework she was KNITTING (her own divegloves i guess?)

When it finally came to the endtest of that subject, every question had to be explained over and over again. Class should have ended at 21:30, but our first two classes took till 23:00 the least.

Due to planning issues the rest of the classes would be with the three/two of us. Still they would take us past 22:00, but that was because of general interests and chattering away.

When doing our 'refresher' pool session, since COVID kept us out of the pool for 3 months we asked how it went with said student. She would be there that evening practising the basic skills, but in the end she did not show up for the third time in a row.

The instructor was so patient, i quote "Well maybe next time then". You could just see his anger in renting the pool (max. Two people at a time due to covid, with there own private instructor who had a lot of people to bring back to the pool to end the courses). Did not ask him about her progress after that, but i hope she did not proceed any further.

Ofcourse people must have reasons, i dont know there personal life. But if you don't show up on a course multiple times, just quit already... Especially in a small town diving association connected diveschool. They already lost money on the amount of effort and time they had to put into renting the pools during covid, and intensivly cleaning the free rental gear.

 

[Jcp2]

Maybe step one to be explained in OW should be "keep legs straight, move up & down".

Unless you have Force Fins.

 

[oly5050user]

Freshly certified here, we got around 8 OW dives on our log right now. But i wonder if this one student even ended there course.

We had a student in our OW diving course, four people in total. My gf, myself and the other guy were very serious on or course.

We did 4 theory classes, eventually due to COVID 7 pooldives and 4 OW dives.

The first two theory classes took ages... Said student did not do the homework, she had not even opened the package the books and tables came in before coming into class. During explaining the physics in-depth and walking through said homework she was KNITTING (her own divegloves i guess?)

When it finally came to the endtest of that subject, every question had to be explained over and over again. Class should have ended at 21:30, but our first two classes took till 23:00 the least.

Due to planning issues the rest of the classes would be with the three/two of us. Still they would take us past 22:00, but that was because of general interests and chattering away.

When doing our 'refresher' pool session, since COVID kept us out of the pool for 3 months we asked how it went with said student. She would be there that evening practising the basic skills, but in the end she did not show up for the third time in a row.

The instructor was so patient, i quote "Well maybe next time then". You could just see his anger in renting the pool (max. Two people at a time due to covid, with there own private instructor who had a lot of people to bring back to the pool to end the courses). Did not ask him about her progress after that, but i hope she did not proceed any further.

Ofcourse people must have reasons, i dont know there personal life. But if you don't show up on a course multiple times, just quit already... Especially in a small town diving association connected diveschool. They already lost money on the amount of effort and time they had to put into renting the pools during covid, and intensivly cleaning the free rental gear.

Instructor has himself/ herself to blame on student not paying attention, holding class up, need to rent additional expensive pool time. Then not to show up adds more expense. This was a group class I assume not a private 1to 1 class. Problem student should of been charged additional for rental of pool and instructor time. We teach a standard group schedule that runs Friday 7pm to 11pm, Saturday 9am to 4pm, Sunday 9am to 2pm. We have student sign a learning agreement explaining what is expected of them. Cannot stay on schedule student can opt for private schedule at more than double the cost and have a flexible schedule . We have a pool onsite in facility, and only use eLearning for academics which saves time and we find students better prepared. Students must complete eLearning before start of class, if they do not, then need to reschedule at a cost of $25 for next start date 2 weeks later.

 

[Colliam7]

Agree. Maybe step one to be explained in OW should be "keep legs straight, move up & down".

Easy for an Instructor to say, hard for a student to do (quickly / immediately). There are certain 'physical' things I have learned how to do in my life that required time, and considerable repetition, before I became facile in executing them. Intellectually, I knew exactly what I was supposed to do. Creating the muscle memory took A LOT of time.

But again, if I were one of these majority of adults, my first step may be to learn how to swim, then scuba (ideally with snorkeling in between).

And, that is a reasonable approach. It is also - unfortunately - not the approach that many adults pursue.

If you think about it, it is almost easier to take a scuba class than it is to take a swim class. When you sign up for swimming lessons, you commit to a series, which is good in terms of content, perhaps not so good in terms of time commitment. I looked on the web for the availability of swimming lessons, for adults, in my area. What I found was A LOT of opportunity for 'youth' swim lessons, A LOT for very young children, and VERY FEW for adults. Here is an example, from the website of an organization in my area that does offer swim lessons for adults:

• Six, 30-minute lessons or four, 45-minute private lessons
• Scheduled at your convenience

Rates

• Members | $185
• Non-members | $220

So, since most marginally swimming adults are not going to be members of this athletic club, they will pay $220 for 4-6 lessons (which amount to 180 minutes / 3 hours of training), which calcul;ates out to a rate of ~$73/hr. That 180 minutes might be enough, it might not be. But it is $220 IN ADDITON TO the cost of the scuba course. And, they want to learn how to DIVE, not SWIM, and often do not make the connection between the two.

I tell my students - I am NOT a swim instructor. As an aside, I would love to 'formally' learn how to teach swimming. I can swim well, myself, probably because I went through very good swim training as a 12 y.o. I taught my kids some things about swimming, but we put them all in swim classes so that someone who actually knew how to teach swimming could work with them. I have coached some scuba students. But, I have no specific, focused training in teaching people how to swim. Moreover, in a scuba course, with ~4 students, and finite pool time available, teaching someone how to swim efficiently is somewhat impractical.

Now, for some time I have thought about seeking out a swim instructor and paying them to coach me on how to teach some swimming fundamentals, specifically, techniques to help divers learn learn to frog kick. I do not want to become a swim instructor, but I do want to gain more insight in how to help my scuba students improve their propulsion techniques.

 

[XfiXit]

Instructor has himself/ herself to blame on student not paying attention, holding class up, need to rent additional expensive pool time. Then not to show up adds more expense. This was a group class I assume not a private 1to 1 class. Problem student should of been charged additional for rental of pool and instructor time. We teach a standard group schedule that runs Friday 7pm to 11pm, Saturday 9am to 4pm, Sunday 9am to 2pm. We have student sign a learning agreement explaining what is expected of them. Cannot stay on schedule student can opt for private schedule at more than double the cost and have a flexible schedule . We have a pool onsite in facility, and only use eLearning for academics which saves time and we find students better prepared. Students must complete eLearning before start of class, if they do not, then need to reschedule at a cost of $25 for next start date 2 weeks later.

Oh he did do private lessons for her for the later classes. We never saw her again after the second class.

But i doubt that he got her to pay extra.
I guess thats a difference inbetween country's/schools. Here there were no additional fees, need another pool session? Jump in, want to lend some dive gear since you dont have a reg and tank set on your first post-OW dives? Come and get some.

Might be the combination with the diveclub association that made them do that, but i liked it. It felt as it was there honest hobby to get as much people diving. And i can not imagine a abroad tourist place would teach me as much as they did.

But back on-topic.

 

[boulderjohn]

Since there seem to be fewer and fewer people who are competent swimmers I heard some of the agencies made the swim optional and replaced it with the snorkel fin swim. Is that true?

That has been a WRSTC standard for longer than I have been a professional (16 years), so I don't know when it was instituted. You can do the standard 200 meter swim, or you can do 300 meters with mask and fins.

In all my years of teaching, I never had a student fail the standard swim test. In 95% of the cases, I saw in the first few yards that the student was going to make it, and I watched impatiently as precious pool time was spent on this exercise. I rarely had a student opt for snorkel and fins, but when they did, I was glad for it, because it became a teaching exercise. I could correct their kicking and snorkeling skills as they did it. I then met an instructor who said he always had ALL students do the swim with mask and snorkels for that reason. He said that when they were done, they were much better prepared for the scuba sessions. This is consistent with other instructors who always said they did snorkeling exercises at the beginning of the scuba class. I tried it myself a few times, and I really liked the results. I don't teach OW classes these days, but if I did, I might require the swim to be done with mask and snorkel.