NSS-CDS Effectiveness

[tursiops]

I don’t think you’ve addressed Tom’s question of “why is that?”

I think I have.

 

[tbone1004]

I think I have.

You definitely haven't. Your quote is below. The implication is that there is value to perspective cave divers, and I am genuinely curious what you think that value is.

If you were not already cave-certified I suspect you would feel differently about the value of the NSS-CDS.

 

[CptTightPants21]

Now you are either being silly or aggressive. Who said CDS was better than the others? How about the same? Happy now?

I think that is exactly the point. There is no difference between NSS-CDS and TDI, IANTD, therefore, why should you be paying an annual fee every year?

Tom is speaking a lot of uncomfortable truths.

The fact that someone as experienced and in the know as Jim Wyatt could only provide a couple half-hearted and vague answers is very telling. You go speak with someone on the WKPP, KUR, GUE, etc you will get a list of active projects, dives, photos, mapping--all sorts of examples of a healthy and active organization.

The NSS-CDS is stagnant. If the NSS-CDS was to suddenly cease to exist tomorrow, the effect on the cave community, cave training, cave access would be negligible. Don't get me wrong, the same could be said of TDI, IANTD, NAUI, etc if any one of them was to suddenly stop all cave training/cave activity, but those agencies aren't asking for a yearly membership fee.

Insert TDI in place of CDS and your statement is still true.
Do we need a new set of procedures whereby no training is allowed unless YOU give the OK for that instructor?


Please, how do you "guarantee" quality cave instruction?

As for guaranteeing instructor quality. The NSS-CDS does not need to force itself to be PADI. The instructor pool is small enough and supposedly elite enough that it could be done. Jarrod Jablonski saw slow decay in the 90s and GUE was formed in part because the CDS refused to self-correct. A training director of the CDS was essentially removed because he had the audacity to argue to gas analysis and bottle marking should become a standard--that's the culture of CDS that reformers are up against.

 

[tursiops]

You definitely haven't. Your quote is below. The implication is that there is value to perspective cave divers, and I am genuinely curious what you think that value is.

OK, I'll read between the lines for you. You are denigrating the CDS because they are not the "best," and then you agree no one is the best. You seem to agree there are some good CDS instructors, maybe 80% you said? That has got to be better than TDI. I see no issues with giving the student the choice of cave instructors and agencies.

I don't see TDI or NAUI or IANTD protecting caves, or arranging access, or building steps.....

A question for you? How would YOUR perfect system work, in which all cave instructors are excellent and the agency they work for takes care of North Florida for you?

 

[tursiops]

As for guaranteeing instructor quality. The NSS-CDS does not need to force itself to be PADI. The instructor pool is small enough and supposedly elite enough that it could be done. Jarrod Jablonski saw slow decay in the 90s and GUE was formed in part because the CDS refused to self-correct. A training director of the CDS was essentially removed because he had the audacity to argue to gas analysis and bottle marking should become a standard--that's the culture of CDS that reformers are up against.

So the best way to change things for the better is to burn them down?

 

[tursiops]

Interesting... but off topic.

The topic of this thread is to appeal to NSS-CDS members who might want to become a Board Member and do something positive for the organization. Let's respect the OP and return to that topic. You can always start a "What have you done for me lately?" thread for everyone to gripe in, but this about having a personal impact on the group.

Thank you.

 

[tbone1004]

OK, I'll read between the lines for you. You are denigrating the CDS because they are not the "best," and then you agree no one is the best. You seem to agree there are some good CDS instructors, maybe 80% you said? That has got to be better than TDI. I see no issues with giving the student the choice of cave instructors and agencies.

I don't see TDI or NAUI or IANTD protecting caves, or arranging access, or building steps.....

A question for you? How would YOUR perfect system work, in which all cave instructors are excellent and the agency they work for takes care of North Florida for you?

why are you reading between the lines for me? You were asked to clarify something you said and I don't understand why you are refusing to do so.

The CDS is to promote the conservation, exploration, and study of underwater caves, as well as educate for increased awareness, safety, and skill in cave diving. That is in their constitution.
I am simply pointing out that they are not living up to that constitution.

The only reason that training came up is because I was trying to read between your lines and figure out what you meant by the organization being more valuable to a perspective cave diver than an active one.

The CDS used to do all of those things that you are asking about, the problem is they haven't really done anything in over a decade and you can't get a single current member or former member of the board to give you a good list of things they've actually accomplished. If you would be so kind as to actually clarify your point on what value you see in the organization, then maybe it will help enlighten all of us that are jaded by the last decade or more.

@The Chairman want to just spin all of this into another thread with the magical Mod powers?

 

[The Chairman]

This is a spin-off from NSS-CDS Board of Directors Post your gripes, concerns and even kudos right here.

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

The fact that someone as experienced and in the know as Jim Wyatt could only provide a couple half-hearted and vague answers is very telling.

In all fairness to the CDS in regards to my disability to give good answers....I was away from cave country and the CDS for the past five years. I was living and diving and driving dive boats in Key Largo and was out of touch with the day-to-day operations of the CDS.

 

[tbone1004]

In all fairness to the CDS in regards to my disability to give good answers....I was away from cave country and the CDS for the past five years. I was living and diving and driving dive boats in Key Largo and was out of touch with the day-to-day operations of the CDS.

Does that excuse the lack of communication though? Should they not be trying to branch out their membership to all cave divers since the vast majority of us do not actually live in Cave Country? I get monthly email updates from the NFSA about everything that they're doing, and while I haven't been a CDS member for about 5 years due to various issues with the organization, I do not recall getting regular updates from them...