Ginnie Springs diver missing - Florida

[Biotech Diver]

as compared to Mexico? Where’s that come from? I think the number of cave divers between fl and Mexico is hard comparatively quantify. But I’d wager Mx has more

Why do you say there are more cave divers in Mexico?

 

[rjack321]

It’s a numbers game. It’s not some Bermuda Triangle of cave diving or that people diving caves in Florida are somehow less trained or experienced. It’s that there are more places to dive caves and more people doing it.

Nyte
There are far more easily & publicly accessible cave diving sites in the Riviera Maya than in FL, and hundreds of thousands of visitors annually.
France, SE Asia, and Australia are all easily as deep as FL
Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean, same, and big diving populations too.
TAG is colder with far worse vis, and diving fatalities are exceptionally rare there.
Canada has few cave divers but some massive systems, and while the denominator is small, I don't think they've ever had a cave diving fatality, so the numerator is zero.

FL is the cave diving fatality epicenter of it all and it cannot be solely because of dive numbers, or depth, or complexity.

 

[Biotech Diver]

Nobody has any idea the precise total number of cave dives, but MX has at least as many cave dives as FL and a fraction of the fatality rate. Especially if you count cavern dives. The rate in TAG, France, and SE Asia is also vastly lower.

And its not something I joke about.

If your assumption is true and the fatality rate is higher then the next step would be to ask why? I have been doing cause analysis for many years as part of my profession. You collect the data then you analyze it. You use various tools to narrow down the cause or contributing causes. Any other way is just anecdotal or hypothesis.

 

[rddvet]

Why do you say there are more cave divers in Mexico?

I could be wrong. It’s an educated guess.

 

[rddvet]

What then exactly is the speculation why more divers die in caves in Florida? Is the suggestion it needs to be regulated more? It seems like a bold statement to say the rate is higher in place A than B or C without some normalized data to support it.

I’d like to know. If the recovery teams were able to release information and statistics maybe we’d know

 

[rjack321]

Why do you say there are more cave divers in Mexico?

Have you been to Riviera Maya?
There is an giant tourism industry there. The mecca that is Ginnie Springs is dwarfed by global draw of MX cave diving vacations. The prices might as well be in euros.

 

[Biotech Diver]

Nyte
There are far more easily & publicly accessible cave diving sites in the Riviera Maya than in FL, and hundreds of thousands of visitors annually.
France, SE Asia, and Australia are all easily as deep as FL
Eastern Europe and the Mediterranean, same, and big diving populations too.
TAG is colder with far worse vis, and diving fatalities are exceptionally rare there.
Canada has few cave divers but some massive systems, and while the denominator is small, I don't think they've ever had a cave diving fatality, so the numerator is zero.

FL is the cave diving fatality epicenter of it all and it cannot be solely because of dive numbers, or depth, or complexity.

If what you say is factual then I would concede but without actual data I think its a bold statement to make.
It may very well be true that more people in Florida are diving in caves that shouldn’t be because they really don’t have the training or experience. If the way people drive in South Florida is any indication of how they dive, then I would not argue at all!

 

[tursiops]

Why do you say there are more cave divers in Mexico?

There are a LOT of caves, a LOT of cave-diving excursion outfits, a LOT of foreign tourists, and low costs -- including getting there.
Why are there more deaths per 1000 dives in FL? I dunno, maybe it is the attitude of the people diving the FL caves? Not likely to be equipment, or training, or the caves themselves.....what is left?

 

[Biotech Diver]

Have you been to Riviera Maya?
There is an giant tourism industry there. The mecca that is Ginnie Springs is dwarfed by global draw of MX cave diving vacations. The prices might as well be in euros.

I haven’t. I have zero interest in cave diving. It’s not something I’ve ever wanted to do.

 

[grantctobin]

If what you say is factual then I would concede but without actual data I think its a bold statement to make.
It may very well be true that more people in Florida are diving in caves that shouldn’t be because they really don’t have the training or experience. If the way people drive in South Florida is any indication of how they dive, then I would not argue at all!

If that’s bad, you should see how the people of S FL dive

All this said, it’s unfortunate that thorough incident reports are infrequently published. I wish the speculation stayed hush for a few days but that seems nigh unavoidable in this day and age.