Reconsidering Deep Air?

[Wibble]

That's a fair point, but you can say the same for OC with regards to distraction. My issue with the original statement is that CCR fatalities receive more analysis and there's more focus on the unit and operator/unit interaction. It's easier to make a determination of casual factors in a lot of cases. Distracted diver, malfunctioning unit, etc, if the loop went hypoxic, we can make at least a partial determination of cause. You can really only speculate if narcosis played a meaningful role.

With OC, assuming the dive was planned correctly (right gas(es) for that depth), the only thing you need to worry about is monitoring the amount of gas left (and turning it on before jumping in).

With CCR, the oxygen levels change all the time and need much closer monitoring. Lost count of the number of times I've read about someone who's died of hypoxia due to not monitoring their O2 levels, especially at the beginning of a dive and during descent.

I treat my box as if it's trying to kill me in some subtle way so cunning that a bald, fat geezer stroking a fluffy cat would be happy with. Damn, sharks with lasers, didn't see that coming...

 

[helodriver87]

With OC, assuming the dive was planned correctly (right gas(es) for that depth), the only thing you need to worry about is monitoring the amount of gas left (and turning it on before jumping in).

With CCR, the oxygen levels change all the time and need much closer monitoring. Lost count of the number of times I've read about someone who's died of hypoxia due to not monitoring their O2 levels, especially at the beginning of a dive and during descent.

I treat my box as if it's trying to kill me in some subtle way so cunning that a bald, fat geezer stroking a fluffy cat would be happy with. Damn, sharks with lasers, didn't see that coming...

I'm not disagreeing with you that ccr requires a lot more attention and active focus. I just disagree that using the number of ccr accidents compared to accidents that can be definitively pinned on narcosis is a flawed assumption.

 

[Wibble]

Before I’d pay that kind of money for a rebreather, I’d get into the shower and start tearing up 50 euro notes in order to get a feeling for what it’s like.

It's wonderful. The silence. The warm gas. Breathe as much as you like (never noticed that until I moved to CCR: unconsciously being frugal with OC backgas, especially when inside a wreck). Stability as your gas volumes don't change - again, inside a wreck and stable. Helium for every dive is normal and not an extravagance. No bubbles, so fish don't run away and you don't get covered in rust through bubbles disturbing the wreck or dislodging slabs of metal -- scary when a guillotine slab falls down from above.

Genuinely the best thing I've done in diving, absolutely no regrets.

But it is expensive for the first dive. My box, extras and the training cost circa €14k = $17k. I'd get a fair amount of that back if I sold it, but obviously there's a sunk cost (and insurance!)

 

[Celt]

It's wonderful. The silence. The warm gas. Breathe as much as you like (never noticed that until I moved to CCR: unconsciously being frugal with OC backgas, especially when inside a wreck). Stability as your gas volumes don't change - again, inside a wreck and stable. Helium for every dive is normal and not an extravagance. No bubbles, so fish don't run away and you don't get covered in rust through bubbles disturbing the wreck or dislodging slabs of metal -- scary when a guillotine slab falls down from above.

Genuinely the best thing I've done in diving, absolutely no regrets.

But it is expensive for the first dive. My box, extras and the training cost circa €14k = $17k. I'd get a fair amount of that back if I sold it, but obviously there's a sunk cost (and insurance!)

I don’t doubt you in the least, you would have to love your rebreather to put up with the hassle of one, the predive scenario alone is enough to put me off plus the very idea that I have to carry enough gas to bailout on OC.

 

[wedivebc]

Tell me about your unique physiology that makes you impervious to the effects of narcosis and gas density.

I would like to know more!

I think I'm a pretty good dancer after a six pack of beer. Not everyone agrees with me either.

 

[Akimbo]

But it is expensive for the first dive.

Unfortunately 'breathers are also expensive to operate at Nitrox depths compared to open circuit — O2 fills, sorb, and replacement cells. I certainly agree with your assessment of the advantages, especially neutral buoyancy no matter how deep you breathe and no bubble noise. Having to lug bailout gas along with the pre and post dive work sucks. I always long for the freedom of freediving while missing the capability of sat diving. I'd rather be a sea lion than a bird.

It's like finding the perfect place to live. There are always parts of other places you miss.

 

[KenGordon]

The $20-30k was an estimate based on around the same price for initially buying the rebreather ($12k including all the tanks etc.), plus courses to get to the equivalent of TDI OC trimix (200' training), which if done sequentially I saw courses for that totaling around $4-7k (baseline from places that show prices such as DGX with $2k for the CCR sport diver, $2.5k to get deco after that, and probably another $2.5k to get the deeper 60m deco cert). Then, since I wouldn't be doing the training locally most likely, I'd have to add on hotel and gas costs for the travel ($125+/night with probably 10-12 days of that, plus ~$150-200 in gas costs) which would be another $1.5-2k. Then there's consumables for the courses, spares, etc. For all that it seems like a baseline of $20k would be around the minimum costs for someone to get to that point, more if you were willing to.

Now sure, you could also go the "buy a used rebreather, find the cheapest instruction available, and sleep in your car route and probably get the costs cut in half, but I think most people don't choose that method.

Either way, I was mostly pointing out that rebreather training isn't cheap and thus isn't a cost effective option for lots of people, especially if they aren't routinely doing dives that benefit or require mixed gas.

You are being ripped off for the training. I just checked and a top flight TDI instructor here is £700 for Helitrox and the same again for TDI mixed gas. For the money you are talking you could fly here and still be quids in.

 

[jlcnuke]

You are being ripped off for the training. I just checked and a top flight TDI instructor here is £700 for Helitrox and the same again for TDI mixed gas. For the money you are talking you could fly here and still be quids in.

So only like $18k all in? Wow, I don't know why everyone isn't doing it...

 

[KenGordon]

So only like $18k all in? Wow, I don't know why everyone isn't doing it...

How do you get there? 8000+700+700 is 9400 GBP so 13160 USD at today’s exchange rates. It isn’t cheap but it isn’t actually the price of a new car.

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

Link to a great recent discussion with Dr. Simon Mitchell.


In the light of the above, have your own views of deep air / extended range diving evolved, or do you believe that deep air dives to 187 feet are OK as long as you keep your exertion levels and work of breathing in control?

Hello,

I understand that the ambiguity in the wording of the above question is completely unintentional, but one possible interpretation is that information presented in the video could be construed as supportive of deep air diving. For those who have not watched the video, I just want to be clear that I do not endorse deep air diving.

Simon M