Taking Open Water course for the 2nd time....

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Some of these issues could be solved by asking specific questions on the eval, i.e. "did you perform a CESA from a depth of at least 20 feet?"
That would work. It would also not be a bad idea to share what would be expected of the student before the checkout dives.

I recently started volunteering for the Dive Team at a local well known aquarium. Prior to being able to join, I had to complete a swim test and dive skills assessment. Prior to scheduling the test, they sent me the checklist and grading criteria they would use for pass/fail criteria.

In my case, I had no idea how poor my first class was until I took my second class. But even that was probably not a good barometer. Cert 1 was clearly well below minimum standards. Cert 2 was way over minimum standards. 6 weeks worth of instruction. Each week consisted of 2 hours of classroom instruction, an hour of written work (tables, etc.), and 3-4 hours of pool work. That was followed by the checkout dives at the end of the course. Most courses are probably somewhere between those two.
 
That would work. It would also not be a bad idea to share what would be expected of the student before the checkout dives.

I recently started volunteering for the Dive Team at a local well known aquarium. Prior to being able to join, I had to complete a swim test and dive skills assessment. Prior to scheduling the test, they sent me the checklist and grading criteria they would use for pass/fail criteria.

In my case, I had no idea how poor my first class was until I took my second class. But even that was probably not a good barometer. Cert 1 was clearly well below minimum standards. Cert 2 was way over minimum standards. 6 weeks worth of instruction. Each week consisted of 2 hours of classroom instruction, an hour of written work (tables, etc.), and 3-4 hours of pool work. That was followed by the checkout dives at the end of the course. Most courses are probably somewhere between those two.
Good stuff. I actually can't remember whether I received an eval to complete for my OW course 2.5 years ago. I do remember feeling like I didn't have a clear idea of what skills were being covered when, and the whole thing felt a bit chaotic. During pool sessions, there were 10 students in the water with a few instructors/DMs passing them around in a kind of non-linear assembly line, and they were asking me whether I had done X, Y, or Z yet. I can't be certain I actually did all the things I was supposed to do, and I definitely could have gotten away with not doing many of the skills if I'd wanted to avoid them.
 
So a student might think their instructor was fantastic and give good answers to PADI only to find out later that they are really didn't get the best training. If my instructor hadn't specifically stated it, I wouldn't have known that the CESA is required to be done at 20+ feet.
The quality questionnaires don't ask if the instructor did a good job. They ask if certain specific things were done. For example, when I was an assistant instructor, a student in a class for which I assisted answered a question by saying that no, the instructor did not use an ascent line while doing the CESA. That student was wrong--the instructor always used an ascent line. PADI did an investigation and correctly decided that the student had used an ascent line. As it turns out, I know another instructor for whom the report that he did not use an ascent line was correct, because he did it in the open ocean with no line available. He had an intense discussion and counseling session before he could continue as an instructor, after which he found a way to get a line in the water.
 
The quality questionnaires don't ask if the instructor did a good job.

I understand that, but it's still up to the student to answer honestly and correctly. At least, in my mind if I was asked if there was an ascent line, I'd reason that there was supposed to be one. That said, I'd probably analyze every single question before answering because I'd also want to ensure that I didn't make an error that could hurt a good instructor who did things right.

I think it would be a very good idea for the training agencies to supply students (in advance) with the detailed requirements for the skills that should be completed during the OW dives - not rely on the instructors to verbally give that info. There is a heck of a lot going on when you do those dives over just a couple of days. It could be hard for some people to remember small details and I'd guess that not every instructor goes over ever skill in detail before getting into the water.

And, as I said above, I don't remember getting a questionnaire. My husband says he didn't either. I would have liked to have filled one out because our instructor deserves good reviews.
 
I think it would be a very good idea for the training agencies to supply students (in advance) with the detailed requirements for the skills that should be completed during the OW dives - not rely on the instructors to verbally give that info.
Take a look at your log book--you will be surprised how much of that information was right there for you to see before the class and during the class. It was true for me a quarter century ago, and I did not realize it for many years. When I was training to be a divemaster, I had to be able to demonstrate all the key skills, and I was pretty darned sure I was seeing them for the first time in that class. I looked in my first log book to the section for the OW class and saw that my instructor had signed me off for skills that I absolutely did not do. Like you, I was overwhelmed, and once I had the card, I did not look back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yle
Take a look at your log book--you will be surprised how much of that information was right there for you to see before the class and during the class. It was true for me a quarter century ago, and I did not realize it for many years. When I was training to be a divemaster, I had to be able to demonstrate all the key skills, and I was pretty darned sure I was seeing them for the first time in that class. I looked in my first log book to the section for the OW class and saw that my instructor had signed me off for skills that I absolutely did not do. Like you, I was overwhelmed, and once I had the card, I did not look back.

LOL! Thanks! It didn't occur to me to look there. I'll have to dig out our logs. I don't use my log book...I keep logs digitally and then save the info in PDF format (just in case the app doesn't work when I need it to).
 
LOL! Thanks! It didn't occur to me to look there. I'll have to dig out our logs. I don't use my log book...I keep logs digitally and then save the info in PDF format (just in case the app doesn't work when I need it to).
Assuming your class followed standards, you actually had to sign each page agreeing that you had done the skills described there.

I'm not blaming you--it really is overwhelming.
 
I understand that, but it's still up to the student to answer honestly and correctly. At least, in my mind if I was asked if there was an ascent line, I'd reason that there was supposed to be one. That said, I'd probably analyze every single question before answering because I'd also want to ensure that I didn't make an error that could hurt a good instructor who did things right.

I think it would be a very good idea for the training agencies to supply students (in advance) with the detailed requirements for the skills that should be completed during the OW dives - not rely on the instructors to verbally give that info. There is a heck of a lot going on when you do those dives over just a couple of days. It could be hard for some people to remember small details and I'd guess that not every instructor goes over ever skill in detail before getting into the water.

And, as I said above, I don't remember getting a questionnaire. My husband says he didn't either. I would have liked to have filled one out because our instructor deserves good reviews.
I don't recall getting one (questionnaire) either back in 2005. I took the course over a 3 week period. Later as an assistant, I did all weekend courses, and thought I was lucky to have taken it over 3 weeks. An awful lot to absorb in 2 pool days.
 
Assuming your class followed standards, you actually had to sign each page agreeing that you had done the skills described there.

I'm not blaming you--it really is overwhelming.
I don't recall anything done with my log book in OW course except logging the 4 checkout dives and the instructor signing each one (he forgot to, I had to go back to the shop weeks later...).

Where are you talking about when you mention you actually had to sign each page agreeing that you had done the skills described there? I don't recall anything like that. Is this "each page" something in your log book? Different type of log book? Maybe I just forgot and lost this somewhere, it's been 16 years.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

Back
Top Bottom