Children die playing with scuba gear left in pool - Jensen Beach, Florida

[DandyDon]

As far as labeling goes, I label my various lawn spray jugs with chemical name & percentage as they are reused laundry jugs filled from a larger jug, or if a leftover diluted mix - chemical name & "Dil." I label travel bottles with liquids as to whether they contain body wash, laundry detergent, or dish detergent - which I use to clean my glasses. My 19 cubic foot pony is labeled "Air only" in large letters as I don't want anyone trying to mix nitrox in that bottle. Aside from my pony, no one other than myself should be handling those jugs and bottles, but I do that to keep myself clear. I have two 1½-gallon lawn sprayers for my yard, cemetery plots, and a nearby drainage ditch and they are labeled as to what type of chemicals are allowed, plus a 1-gallon sprayer labeled "tree killer" I use on mesquite at times. I cannot imagine leaving a scuba tank of helium sitting around without a label.

In the unlikely event that someone who does not read English might handle one of these, it'd be nice to have picture labels, but that's a stretch.

 

[Chavodel8en]

No, but my concern would not necessarily be about proficiency, but more about the impulsive nature of children.

Good point, but I believe the bottom line is no parent should trust nine-year olds with scuba, unsupervised -- and the parents who did so in this account really blew it (although the cause may be something different)

I dont want to criticize folks, but there was some discussion in this thread of how skilled even younger children were in water skills, scuba, etc. Honestly, all this discussion is irrelevant, bc the bottom line is that we should not trust even such skilled and "proficient" children to scuba unsupervised. Probably, bc, as you point out, we dont trust their judgment/ impulsivity.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

I know kids shouldn’t be left unattended, but unlabeled gas is a hazard for adults too.

you think if it was just the one adult testing a scooter alone in the pool, that he would have realized the mistake in time? Probably not, and it very likely would still be a fatality.

label and analyze before use is the best policy.

 

[Bob DBF]

I know kids shouldn’t be left unattended, but unlabeled gas is a hazard for adults too.

Agreed. I wanted to point out that aside from the danger of unlabeled gas which was the cause of death, the lack of supervision prevented immediate assistance from being rendered.

 

[2airishuman]

As far as labeling goes, I label my various lawn spray jugs with chemical name & percentage as they are reused laundry jugs filled from a larger jug, or if a leftover diluted mix - chemical name & "Dil." I label travel bottles with liquids as to whether they contain body wash, laundry detergent, or dish detergent - which I use to clean my glasses.

The shape, color, ergonomics, and general appearance of these containers is a safety feature even though you may not realize it.

No rational person will drink the contents of a laundry jug, even if they can't read the label, even in the dark, because the shape, feel, and design of the cap make it clear that it's not food or drink. For the most part, sensible people don't put toxic or hazardous substances in food containers -- not only because of the potential for cross contamination, but because of the potential for a mistake.

As another example, medication in tablet form comes in a wide variety of colors and shapes as one form of protection against mistakes.

In hospital environments where different medical gases are used, and in industrial environments where packaged gases are used, the cylinders themselves are color coded and the valve-to-regulator connection is specific to one gas and will not allow a cross connection unless deliberately defeated. Sure, there's a label too.

There are still accidents. Here's one that killed three people at a hospital. There has been a more recent, more serious similar event at another hospital, but I can't find a link. Here's one that killed two people at a hospital where the index posts had been removed from a regulator. There are other examples.

Perhaps someone who has taken a gas blending class could comment on whether these risks are taught and what practices are considered acceptable.

 

[Wookie]

The shape, color, ergonomics, and general appearance of these containers is a safety feature even though you may not realize it.

No rational person will drink the contents of a laundry jug, even if they can't read the label, even in the dark, because the shape, feel, and design of the cap make it clear that it's not food or drink. For the most part, sensible people don't put toxic or hazardous substances in food containers -- not only because of the potential for cross contamination, but because of the potential for a mistake.

As another example, medication in tablet form comes in a wide variety of colors and shapes as one form of protection against mistakes.

In hospital environments where different medical gases are used, and in industrial environments where packaged gases are used, the cylinders themselves are color coded and the valve-to-regulator connection is specific to one gas and will not allow a cross connection unless deliberately defeated. Sure, there's a label too.

There are still accidents. Here's one that killed three people at a hospital. There has been a more recent, more serious similar event at another hospital, but I can't find a link. Here's one that killed two people at a hospital where the index posts had been removed from a regulator. There are other examples.

Perhaps someone who has taken a gas blending class could comment on whether these risks are taught and what practices are considered acceptable.

I have taken a gas blending course.

Cylinders are all the same and functionally identical. The difference is the valves.

But they aren’t all different. Different grades of Oxygen all use the same valve. Different grades of inert gasses use the same valve. For instance, a CGA-350 is for Arsine, Carbon Monoxide, Deuterium, Ethane, Ethylene, Hydrogen, Methane, Natural Gas, Phosphine, and Silane. Argon, R-14, helium, krypton, Neon, Nitrogen, and xenon all use CGA-580 valves.

Ya gotta read the cylinder label.

CONCOA CGA Connection Reference Chart

 

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Ya gotta read the cylinder label.

And that guarantees nothing.

AirGas once delivered an aviators' oxygen bottle to me filled with Helium.

 

[Wookie]

And that guarantees nothing.

AirGas once delivered an aviators' oxygen bottle to me filled with Helium.

Ya gotta analyze your gas.

Considering the homeowner had been blending gas using that cylinder, it would follow that he knew what was in it, and warned the father to analyze the gas himself.

 

[rjack321]

The shape, color, ergonomics, and general appearance of these containers is a safety feature even though you may not realize it.

Europe tried this with the "M26" valve which is specifically for oxygen. It is unpopular. Since the cylinder in this accident was a scuba cylinder it was assumed to be breathable... Not unlike many SB members who dont bother to analyze their "air" cause they dont request nitrox or it doesnt have a banner on it etc.

Many of us have been advocating for an "analyze everything" approach for decades now - since air cylinders may have nitrox in them and vice versa, labels are imperfect or even inaccurate, labels fall off, or cylinders get filled with a mix other than what was requested, cylinders don't get topped off right, or in this case some cylinders are not breathable at all.

These children likely didnt know any better but someone at that house did. Analyze everything, assuming nothing about the contents of a scuba cylinder was their responsibility.

 

[lermontov]

a friend got his dil bottle filled at a LDS - turns out it was filled with 100%- he never went back to that shop