Drop Tanks - Where do the responsibilities lie?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Thanks again - one final point. Does this warrant a PADI Quality Management review? I'm thinking the instructor would probably just get a reminder to follow course standards more closely, (we were doing the Deep Dive Scenario and he should have instructed us and we should have demonstrated preparing and positioning the drop tank at depth which we did not do) and get a little slap on the wrist. Whilst the resort owner (PADI 5 star resort) would get off scott free.
 
No easy answer!
It will take time for PADI to look at your case and in the meantime you are doing a course with them!!
The instructor can fail you if he/she wants! All your time and money would had gone wasted!
Bite the bullet and finished the course first.
After receiving your card please come back and write a review of the course. But do be careful with the wording as you do not want to offend anyone. You can name the instructor and the resort as long as you do not mention this incidence.

Good luck.
 
No easy answer!
It will take time for PADI to look at your case and in the meantime you are doing a course with them!!
The instructor can fail you if he/she wants! All your time and money would had gone wasted!
Bite the bullet and finished the course first.
After receiving your card please come back and write a review of the course. But do be careful with the wording as you do not want to offend anyone. You can name the instructor and the resort as long as you do not mention this incidence.

Good luck.
I left the resort and the course the next day - I have never been spoken to like that in my life and my wife was shocked, traumatized and in tears. She didn't want to stay a moment longer.
 
I left the resort and the course the next day - I have never been spoken to like that in my life and my wife was shocked, traumatized and in tears. She didn't want to stay a moment longer.
Hat off to you. Well done.
Where was it if you do not mind to disclose the place please? I go to Philippines often and would like to avoid places like that.
pm will do and my lips are sealed.
 
Hello All,

I wanted to get some advice and guidance on the responsibilities surrounding the use of drop tanks. An issue arose on my PADI DM course and I can't find any reference in their standards.

I understand that according to PADI standards drop tanks should be used when doing deep dives and its the responsibility of the most qualified diver on board, in my case the instructor, to notify the Boat Captain that they will be needed. In this situation, as the DM trainee, I was instructed to tell the Boat Captain that we would be needing a drop tank, which I did, also adding to check the regulator was working ok and that he had enough rope to hang it at 5 meters.

What I would like to understand is whos responsibility is it to ensure the Boat Captain knows how to deploy a drop tank on the boat that he is captaining? There are many instances where accidents could happen as a result of the incorrect deployment of a dive tank, e.g. it falls on a diver below, is empty, is too shallow, is not properly secured etc. Perhaps there should also be some guidance as to where from the boat it should be dropped so as not to interfere with the mooring line, too near the propeller?

Who is responsible for ensuring the Boat Captain knows? Is it the DM trainee? The instructor? The Boat Captain? The Dive Shop owner?
------------------------------------

My opinion; Whilst the instructor is responsible for everything in the dive, he may ask you to go through the process of making available a drop tank for the dive. However he is responsible for the dive and your instruction at all times. Based on that he should check that what you have done is OK and has occured. He doesnt get out of it by saying: the student was told to sort that!

Its in your best interest to ensure you are happy with the setup and structure of the dive "for your safety", but that doesnt let the instructor off the hook. He is being paid to instruct you, and to ensure you perform the dive as required. In my opinion you have a crap instructor. My instructor would test me in every way possible, and in his words "I am trying to ensure you will survive when it all turns to crap". But in saying that he would always oversee everything I have done as a final check. A good instructor tests you at every turn, but always checks everything as a final backup. They will take you to the edge and stop you before you fail. That demonstrates where you were heading and why you were doing something wrong. BUT they stop you before you get into trouble.

In my opinion, if your instructor just left you to sort everything, then they are lazy and I would walk away.
 
I left the resort and the course the next day - I have never been spoken to like that in my life and my wife was shocked, traumatized and in tears. She didn't want to stay a moment longer.
You should write to PADI now since you had left the place.
Good luck.
 
As a general rule, I would suggest drop tanks use is outside the scope of the American definition of recreational diving.

There may be sense in having a cylinder on the shot (anchor line), when (American definition)recreational divers are doing deeper dives. In truth, I would say this is a prepositioned stage cylinder of emergency gas, not a drop cylinder.
If I was leading a group (i.e. DM'ing) on a dive where I had concerns that any of the divers might run the risk of running out of gas. Then I would use a twinset, or carry as stage thus ensuring I was carrying sufficient additional gas.

Generally where drop cylinders are used, i.e. they are dropped into the water over a diver who has signalled they require additional (emergency) gas. You are looking at technical diving teams/divers.
i.e they have a signal to the surface to request the drop cylinder. The cylinder will be a rich decompression mix. It will be on a prepared drop line and buoy. The signal is preplanned and so is the procedure
For this to work, the skipper needs to be familiar with this type of diving as do the crew.
The drop cylinder, and line length are the responsibility of the diver (dive team), it is part of their emergency decompression procedure. If the skipper is not familiar with this type of diving procedure, then a standby diver is required on the surface. The skipper needs to be clear that his function is to position the boat over the signal buoy, to allow the standby diver to drop the cylinder on to the diver. This is not an easy task and requires good team work between the skipper and stand diver.

Where I have needed this facility, we have run drills with the skipper and the dive team.
A small boat can come alongside the DSMB and then the drop cylinder can be clipped to the DSMB line and dropped down the line, being supported on the surface by the buoy.
For a large boat then the solution we have used is to drop a ring (hula hoop?) over the signal DSMB and then drop the cylinder through the hoop.
Once the drop cylinder is in the water, then if a standby diver is available, he should enter the water with additional gas to investigate the nature of the problem, and to ensure the distressed diver has actually received the gas.
If no standby diver is prepositioned, a diver from the dive team needs to investigate as soon as possible.

If you are the diver in the water, once you have signalled I need gas, then you look up, unless you want concussion!!!!
If nothing else, the signal should mean the O2 kit is at the ready if you are forced to the surface.

As a general rule, when we do this type of diving, we put trapezes in the water with staged decompression gas at 6m, 12m and 30m.
Under these rules, you should never need the drop tank. This would only be required if the diver had failed to return to the shot line (trapeze) and was out of gas. Generally, you (or the skipper) knows things are going to sh** because you see an initial DSMB hit the surface as the diver starts the ascent. Hopefully, they have just failed to return to the shot, and the boat can track them and chase them down. The worry is if you then see the 'out of gas DSMB' follow the primary DSMB.

In truth, it is far easier, if you have a standby diver, for the standby diver to enter the water with the additional gas in preference to dropping a drop tank on a diver. Especially for the skipper, who should be familiar with dropping divers into the water.
The other point to note, is by definition, for a drop tank or stand diver to be effectively deployed. The boat cannot be moored. The boat needs to be mobile so it can reposition over the DSMB.
In the UK, it is not normal practice for the dive boat to moor into the site. A shot is deployed and the dive boat patrols the site.

In the UK Red is the standard DSMB deployed at anytime you surface away from the shot. The yellow is the distress buoy. Many add pre written tear away notes to the yellow DSMB so that they can select the correct 'message' to send up under the yellow DSMB.

This is so far outside the scope of the American definition of recreation diving.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

Back
Top Bottom