Is a Pony Bottle too complicated for a beginner?

[KenGordon]

I keep my pony in front of me, diagonally across my chest. I keep it turned on and I check to make sure all is working before I jump in the water. I also know what movements my hands need to make to reach the stage 2 on my pony, in case of failure of my main tank.
I have done a ton of research on diving solo, and I know that my pony, is my get out of crap card. It is not to be included in my gas planning at all. There is no chance I would be breathing off my pony instead of my main tank.

You say you started with a different configuration. Was that a worse configuration or a better one? Do you know more now with 140 dives than you did at the end of your first course? Have you had any failures of the main supply? Have you lost your buddy so often that an OOG situation following separation would have been a real risk? While you were still a new diver were your dives high risk dives needing redundancy? Did having a pony encourage you to go deeper and push things a bit more?

You must have practically dived every weekend since you started. That is not typical. As I said in my first post, beginners need to start easy and build up. A pony is not necessary for the dives beginners ought to be doing. It may be the case that single divers without a regular buddy are paranoid about being out of gas and think that a pony fixes that. That is a difficult place to be.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

You say you started with a different configuration. Was that a worse configuration or a better one? Do you know more now with 140 dives than you did at the end of your first course? Have you had any failures of the main supply? Have you lost your buddy so often that an OOG situation following separation would have been a real risk? While you were still a new diver were your dives high risk dives needing redundancy? Did having a pony encourage you to go deeper and push things a bit more?

You must have practically dived every weekend since you started. That is not typical. As I said in my first post, beginners need to start easy and build up. A pony is not necessary for the dives beginners ought to be doing. It may be the case that single divers without a regular buddy are paranoid about being out of gas and think that a pony fixes that. That is a difficult place to be.

I started with a 13cu pony and slung that on my left side. I then started slinging it diagonally, as I found it better balanced. I then moved up to a 30cu, but I still sling that diagonally. I dive 2-5 times a week, midweek and weekend, in vis that ranges from 100' (very rare) to I am using a white cane. I can only dive like that as I have all my own gear, rentals are not required.

Usually, I find the top 30' can be very limited vis and quite a few times, one's buddy could be 3' away and you would not know it. A lot of times, we are dropping straight through the soup layer before we see each other again, and conversely, I could be on a safety stop, and have no idea where my buddy is. I am diving in the Pacific NW, off Vancouver Island.
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I have run out of gas once, early on, trying primarily to hover at a safety stop in pea soup vis. I ended up going up and down so many times, inflating, deflating, up, down, oh crap the gas I am breathing feels like it did when my instructor turned off my tank; switch to pony. It was not a gas failure, but a me failure.

My 1st 40 dives I stayed within OW limits, so nothing high risk really, but vis was sometimes a real issue. I started quite easy with my dives, sticking to ones a beginner would be comfortable on, and avoiding high current dives. It was after my 1st 40 dives, I did my AOW, and I carried my pony on that course. My pony did not make me go deeper. Now, I am quite comfortable, swimming along a wall at 100', checking out glass sponges. Also, do not forget, I am also diving in a drysuit, so throw that at a beginner, at the same time. Where I dive, brand new students do their OW in a drysuit.

I was never paranoid about running out of gas, more concerned about a catastrophic equipment failure, that my buddy is not able to help with, for whatever reason. The one time my computer told me I needed to do a deco stop, it got my head going, crap crap crap (ok well maybe a different word was used) while I made my way up. I did not panic, as I had 30cu of gas on my chest to help. Once I hit 40' though, my Shearwater told me I only had to do a 5 min safety stop, whew. I practice switching over to my pony, so when I need too, there is no hesitation. Most of my dive buddies are DMs, Rescue or Instructors, and a large portion dive self reliant. My SAC rate is still higher than most of my buddies, so now when we are deep, my pony allows me to look over at my buddies and wave cya up top, when my gas supply dictates is time for me to head up. The pony gives me knowledge that my 2nd air source is right with me the whole time, and my buddies are confident in my ability to actually be smart about how I come up by myself.

 

[Julius SCHMIDT]

If you suck down your primary, you should be at the surface, not reaching for a pony to extend your time. A pony is never considered as part of your gas supply, but rather, your get out of $#it supply.

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

I am going to respectfully disagree. My pony is not used in my gas planning at all. It only exists for a catastrophic failure, not running out of gas. Running out of gas is a failure by me, and I have done that once in 140+dives ... I owned that failure and my pony saved my ass.

 

[johndiver999]

The primary reason for a pony is because you have sucked down your primary

You are probably right. If we had some statistics, I bet the most common reason to use a pony is diver (or buddy) error rather than catastrophic failure of the primary scuba unit. In other words, not watching the spg and running low or out of gas.

However, even if it is true that most "utilization occurrences" are preventable, that does not negate the potential increase in safety that would be derived by having a pony bottle when an actual gear failure occurs, not to mention the safety benefit that is derived when human error comes into play.

I bet most automotive air bag deployments are similar. Accidents are primarily caused by situations the driver could/should have avoided - but not all.

 

[Lorenzoid]

My pony . . . only exists for a catastrophic failure, not running out of gas.

So you carry a pony on every dive to deal with an event having a probability of, what? Catastrophic failure where the reg fails shut and nobody is around to donate gas to you and you're too deep to do a CESA.

If you're diving in near-freezing water, with unreliable buddies, I guess the probability of such an event is significant enough that a redundant gas supply is advisable. Other than that, I suspect the probability is tiny--maybe similar to the probability of other events most divers don't have a plan for dealing with, like the boat abandoning you or, I dunno, a shark attack.

I plan for events for which the probability of occurrence or the severity of the consequences or a combination of those factors is high. With conservative gas planning, and even half decent buddy procedures, I don't see catastrophic reg failure exceeding that threshold.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
I bet most automotive air bag deployments are similar. Accidents are primarily caused by situations the driver could/should have avoided - but not all.

Imagine if people had to take the airbag out to their car every trip, periodically have the airbag serviced, make sure it's full and turned on, keep their airbag deployment skills sharp with regular practice, etc.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

So you carry a pony on every dive to deal with an event having a probability of, what? Catastrophic failure where the reg fails shut and nobody is around to donate gas to you and you're too deep to do a CESA.

If you're diving in near-freezing water, with unreliable buddies, I guess the probability of such an event is significant enough that a redundant gas supply is advisable. Other than that, I suspect the probability is tiny--maybe similar to the probability of other events most divers don't have a plan for dealing with, like the boat abandoning you or, I dunno, a shark attack.

I plan for events for which the probability of occurrence or the severity of the consequences or a combination of those factors is high. With conservative gas planning, and even half decent buddy procedures, I don't see catastrophic reg failure exceeding that threshold.

I guess I should've rephrased that, taking out the word, "only". I dive in water, usually in the 7C-11C range, a lot of times with restricted vis. Sometimes when one submerges, the vis is totally restricting, and your buddy would have no idea if things were going south with your equipment, even 2' away. Being self reliant gives one, peace of mind.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I guess I should've rephrased that, taking out the word, "only". I dive in water, usually in the 7C-11C range, a lot of times with restricted vis. Sometimes when one submerges, the vis is totally restricting, and your buddy would have no idea if things were going south with your equipment, even 2' away. Being self reliant gives one, peace of mind.

There are no doubt some types of diving where a pony might make sense. However, this is the New Divers forum after all, not the Self-Reliant (Solo) forum.

As I said the last time I chimed in on this thread several pages ago, I believe new divers would be well advised to focus on honing the skills they learned in the course, including buddy procedures, and not making big changes in environment or equipment. A new diver probably shouldn't be diving in 2-ft vis.

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

There are no doubt some types of diving where a pony might make sense. However, this is the New Divers forum after all, not the Self-Reliant (Solo) forum.

As I said the last time I chimed in on this thread several pages ago, I believe new divers would be well advised to focus on honing the skills they learned in the course, including buddy procedures, and not making big changes in environment or equipment. A new diver probably shouldn't be diving in 2-ft vis.

I still consider myself a new diver, having only been diving since last Sept. I have also been diving and practicing with a pony since my OW. Vis I have found all over the place, sometimes not knowing what you get till you jump in. I guess it depends on how comfortable one is in adverse conditions. I find myself pretty chill in the "unknown". Launching DSMBs in pea soup, or a 4kt drift. I found total green water descents to be interesting.