99%of all instructors teach neutral buoyant?
I think it's more like 99% teach on the knees. Maybe it's different in your region, but all classes I see here are full on knees, or start on knees and go neutral buoyant during the course
Are there people who just CANNOT dive?
- Thread starter Colombo
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I think it's more like 99% teach on the knees. Maybe it's different in your region, but all classes I see here are full on knees, or start on knees and go neutral buoyant during the course
I am having trouble finding where in my statement I said that 99% of instructors teach neutrally buoyant. Could you point it out for me, please?
What I did write was "most of the best instructors." Let me explain that phrase to you. The term "the best instructors" is intentionally vague. What percentage of all instructors would be considered "the best"? Well, let's start by identifying "the best instructors." Since I wrote that phrase, what I meant by that is my opinion, is it not? It has now been a decade since the world's largest dive agency first published an article in its professional magazine on teaching that way, and it has been promoting it with increasing fervor ever since; it has just decreed that new DMs must demonstrate skills that way. In a recent webinar, Mark Powell of SDI/TDI said that all SDI instructors MUST teach that way. The subject has been mentioned many times in many contexts, and it is hard to believe that any instructor who cares about quality instruction has not heard of it. Since the difference in producing students is so huge, I would have to assume that anyone who has investigated the process honestly will have made the change. Consequently, I conclude that anyone who in this environment is still teaching on the knees does not care much about perfecting the craft and so is not among the best.
So what percentage of all instructors would be among the best? Well, I will agree with you that the percentage is sadly far too small. I have no idea what it is, but it is decidedly in the minority.
So my phrase "most of the best" refers to an unquantifiable minority of instructors--certainly not 99% of all instructors.
Finally, let's have a quick logic lesson. The "straw man fallacy" occurs when you attack someone by summarizing their position inaccurately. By misstating their position, you can make it appear ridiculous, and you make yourself seem oh-so-much-wiser because you do not hold the ridiculous position you pretend they hold. I am not sure why you decided to attack and even ridicule me for something I never said, but it makes me sad that you would have the enmity to do that. I am not sure what I did to offend you so. Can you tell me your motivation?
Let's find out if we know any "best" instructors in our OP student's area.
SlugLife
Contributor
It might depend on the level of the class. In the intro open-water class, we did a lot of skills on knees, at least during the pool-sessions and first dive. I don't remember if we switched to neutral-bouyancy for the last dives. For anything beyond that first course, I'd be strongly considering asking for a refund if we were asked to practice skills, while resting on the bottom on our knees.
@Colombo
Sorry if I missed it but I didn't see what area of the world you are in. Dark cold water is more challenging than crystal clear and warm. I also didn't see if you rate yourself as a competent swimmer.
Anyone who is not confident in a Scuba course is probably starting too far down the ladder. As others have suggested, spend time mastering mask, fins, and snorkel in a swimming pool. Then "graduate" to a lake or ocean with the required thermal protection. It's not about the gear, it is learning to be at one with the water just as you are in air. Baby steps mate, baby steps.
Sorry if I missed it but I didn't see what area of the world you are in. Dark cold water is more challenging than crystal clear and warm. I also didn't see if you rate yourself as a competent swimmer.
Anyone who is not confident in a Scuba course is probably starting too far down the ladder. As others have suggested, spend time mastering mask, fins, and snorkel in a swimming pool. Then "graduate" to a lake or ocean with the required thermal protection. It's not about the gear, it is learning to be at one with the water just as you are in air. Baby steps mate, baby steps.
Wow! I didn't expect to get so many helping messages in such a short time! I'm not too much into the internet, connecting once a day at the most, so I apologise for not answering before.
Even though I'd like to say something to each of you who have so kindly taken the time to help me, I'm afraid I'll have to send a general posting (which I suppose is good, seeing how much I write!). The exception is Julius SCHMIDT. I hope you weren't upset when I said I didn't know whether you were serious or not; you comment about the psychology thesis puzzled me. I thought it might be some kind of joke. Maybe because I have trouble with the nuances of English, or maybe because I didn't see myself as having any type of psychological problem. But, as I said, sometimes one is the last to know. I apologise for having doubted your intentions.
First of all, I'm from Spain. As I said, there's only this dive instructor in my area, though now that you've suggested so, I could try some others in Madrid, which is at a two-hour ride from here. My instructor represents ACUC. Each of the OWD courses consists of four sessions, approximately one hour and forty-five minutes each (that includes explanations, setting up the equipment and actually doing the exercises, though I cannot say how much time is devoted to each part). In both of the courses, there were eight students and two instructors.
After one year, I don't remember the sequence very well, but the first day is all done with the snorkel. First we dive from here to there to get used to the fins (sorry, I misused the term "swim" in my original post, and didn't realise it until I read TMHeimer's answer... I should have said "dive", but I keep on thinking of "swimming" as moving from one place of the swimming pool to another). On that day we also remove our masks so we can try breathing through the snorkel without them. On the second day we already use all the equipment (except for the wetsuit). As I remember it, this is the only day we do some kneeling: the instructor kneels in front of us, and each removes and empties his mask. Then he explains how to share the air source, checks each of us can do it, and then we spend the rest of the session doing the same as we dive, and diving without the mask. On the third day we learn how to put the BCD on in the water, we practice going here and there in couples or groups of four, and buoyancy in general. On the fourth day we practise diving with only one fin, without fins, and without fins plus an empty BCD with the low-pressure inflating hose disconnected, and putting the fins on underwater.
I could see the logic behind repeating the same course once and again, since even with the best of instructors, I'm aware that I do need more time to do what others do, and since the swimming pool time allotted to the dive center is what it is, there's no way to get more time than doing another course (I already enquired). Anyway, the instructor was kind enough to let me do the second course for free. I've paid for the third one without asking anything, because I understand I'm using up his time and taking the place another student could be using. The private covered swimming pool is used only for organised sports (the dive centre, a water polo team, a competition swimming club), not open to individuals. The open-air swimming pool at my place opens only from June to September, but no snorkels or masks are allowed (only goggles), so I practise in the washbasin at home. This helps with the no-mask issue, but certainly not with the rest.
Some of you have suggested trying a different instructor. In principle, it sounds like a logical thing to do. But my present instructor told us at the beginning of the course that he was the type who doesn't give a certification away just because you've paid for the course, though many others do. I think that I'd be afraid to be one of those undeserving divers if I happen to pass the exams with my new instructor. As a matter of fact, I felt relieved when I heard my instructor say so, because I thought that if I ever get the OWD certification, it'll be because I am really fit for it, not because he wants to have a new customer buying equipment and other courses from him.
What I find sort of amusing is that so many people have suggested some sort of psychological help. I don't consider myself pesimistic or having low self-esteem, but just realistic. In fact, I remember feeling frustrated at not being able to be as good as others at sports before it dawned on me that I just couldn't do it, in the same way others couldn't draw or sing in tune, and that I wasn't worse than others as a human being because of it. It's true that this attitude may make me miss things only because I won't even try. But when I decide to try them (like in the case of diving), it's because I'd like to do them, so if I succeed, I'm delighted, and if I fail, I'm happy to have tried. For example, swimming (someone asked about it) is one of those things I managed to learn, after three courses, though -as I said in my first message- not at a very good level. Until I was a teenager I used to play in the swimming pool with my friends and cousins, but the most difficult thing I've done as far as diving is concerned is going to the deep (3 metres) end of the pool and descending and ascending quickly in a vertical position for several times in a row -something I don't think is quite wise after learning the OWD theory-, and diving under someone's legs without goggles, mask or snorkel (which proves I can be underwater, and that the problem arises when I want to do that and breathe at the same time). Anyway, before my first OWD course I mentioned this in the dive centre, and they told me that what I could do, swimming-wise, was enough, and that I might even improve my swimming skills by applying things learnt in the OWD course.
The panicking problem is something different. I have no idea how I'd react in such a situation, because it hasn't happened so far. It's true: probably I wouldn't react in the right way, but I'm not sure. The closest I've been to that is when I removed my mask underwater, and at no point did I feel the urge to go to the surface... Which is something, though not much.
The idea of thinking of all the steps I must take carefully and slowly before doing something souds great. In fact, my only qualm about the courses I've made is how rushed everything seems. Before we jump into the swimming pool, we're in a big hurry, because there's not much time and we cannot waste it. I acknowledge I'm in a slightly nervous attitude until I'm in the water, and even when I'm with the snorkel listening to instructions. But once I get underwater, everything seems so calm that I feel completely relaxed (except when I'm neither wearing a mask nor holding my nose with my fingers).
Thanks a lot, once again, for your valuable advice. I've printed all of your messages so as to go through them carefully again. I appreciate being told sincerely that diving is not for everyone. It'll really make me feel better if I don't succeed. I'd also like to thank those who have pointed out that my problems are not uncommon, though I may have been the unlucky one to combine them all. All of this will make the conversation I inted to have with my instructor at the end of the forthcoming course much more productive.
Now that I've tried it, I'm more willing than ever to put in all the effort which is required. I do love the feeling of being underwater, and I understand the importance of learning all the safety procedures well so that diving will be pleasurable and not dangerous. This is what I said before: even if I have to give up, I'm extremely happy to have tried. Even though every single day of my OWD courses has been part success and part failure, there's not one when I haven't got out of the swimming pool with a smile on my face. Wish me luck!
Even though I'd like to say something to each of you who have so kindly taken the time to help me, I'm afraid I'll have to send a general posting (which I suppose is good, seeing how much I write!). The exception is Julius SCHMIDT. I hope you weren't upset when I said I didn't know whether you were serious or not; you comment about the psychology thesis puzzled me. I thought it might be some kind of joke. Maybe because I have trouble with the nuances of English, or maybe because I didn't see myself as having any type of psychological problem. But, as I said, sometimes one is the last to know. I apologise for having doubted your intentions.
First of all, I'm from Spain. As I said, there's only this dive instructor in my area, though now that you've suggested so, I could try some others in Madrid, which is at a two-hour ride from here. My instructor represents ACUC. Each of the OWD courses consists of four sessions, approximately one hour and forty-five minutes each (that includes explanations, setting up the equipment and actually doing the exercises, though I cannot say how much time is devoted to each part). In both of the courses, there were eight students and two instructors.
After one year, I don't remember the sequence very well, but the first day is all done with the snorkel. First we dive from here to there to get used to the fins (sorry, I misused the term "swim" in my original post, and didn't realise it until I read TMHeimer's answer... I should have said "dive", but I keep on thinking of "swimming" as moving from one place of the swimming pool to another). On that day we also remove our masks so we can try breathing through the snorkel without them. On the second day we already use all the equipment (except for the wetsuit). As I remember it, this is the only day we do some kneeling: the instructor kneels in front of us, and each removes and empties his mask. Then he explains how to share the air source, checks each of us can do it, and then we spend the rest of the session doing the same as we dive, and diving without the mask. On the third day we learn how to put the BCD on in the water, we practice going here and there in couples or groups of four, and buoyancy in general. On the fourth day we practise diving with only one fin, without fins, and without fins plus an empty BCD with the low-pressure inflating hose disconnected, and putting the fins on underwater.
I could see the logic behind repeating the same course once and again, since even with the best of instructors, I'm aware that I do need more time to do what others do, and since the swimming pool time allotted to the dive center is what it is, there's no way to get more time than doing another course (I already enquired). Anyway, the instructor was kind enough to let me do the second course for free. I've paid for the third one without asking anything, because I understand I'm using up his time and taking the place another student could be using. The private covered swimming pool is used only for organised sports (the dive centre, a water polo team, a competition swimming club), not open to individuals. The open-air swimming pool at my place opens only from June to September, but no snorkels or masks are allowed (only goggles), so I practise in the washbasin at home. This helps with the no-mask issue, but certainly not with the rest.
Some of you have suggested trying a different instructor. In principle, it sounds like a logical thing to do. But my present instructor told us at the beginning of the course that he was the type who doesn't give a certification away just because you've paid for the course, though many others do. I think that I'd be afraid to be one of those undeserving divers if I happen to pass the exams with my new instructor. As a matter of fact, I felt relieved when I heard my instructor say so, because I thought that if I ever get the OWD certification, it'll be because I am really fit for it, not because he wants to have a new customer buying equipment and other courses from him.
What I find sort of amusing is that so many people have suggested some sort of psychological help. I don't consider myself pesimistic or having low self-esteem, but just realistic. In fact, I remember feeling frustrated at not being able to be as good as others at sports before it dawned on me that I just couldn't do it, in the same way others couldn't draw or sing in tune, and that I wasn't worse than others as a human being because of it. It's true that this attitude may make me miss things only because I won't even try. But when I decide to try them (like in the case of diving), it's because I'd like to do them, so if I succeed, I'm delighted, and if I fail, I'm happy to have tried. For example, swimming (someone asked about it) is one of those things I managed to learn, after three courses, though -as I said in my first message- not at a very good level. Until I was a teenager I used to play in the swimming pool with my friends and cousins, but the most difficult thing I've done as far as diving is concerned is going to the deep (3 metres) end of the pool and descending and ascending quickly in a vertical position for several times in a row -something I don't think is quite wise after learning the OWD theory-, and diving under someone's legs without goggles, mask or snorkel (which proves I can be underwater, and that the problem arises when I want to do that and breathe at the same time). Anyway, before my first OWD course I mentioned this in the dive centre, and they told me that what I could do, swimming-wise, was enough, and that I might even improve my swimming skills by applying things learnt in the OWD course.
The panicking problem is something different. I have no idea how I'd react in such a situation, because it hasn't happened so far. It's true: probably I wouldn't react in the right way, but I'm not sure. The closest I've been to that is when I removed my mask underwater, and at no point did I feel the urge to go to the surface... Which is something, though not much.
The idea of thinking of all the steps I must take carefully and slowly before doing something souds great. In fact, my only qualm about the courses I've made is how rushed everything seems. Before we jump into the swimming pool, we're in a big hurry, because there's not much time and we cannot waste it. I acknowledge I'm in a slightly nervous attitude until I'm in the water, and even when I'm with the snorkel listening to instructions. But once I get underwater, everything seems so calm that I feel completely relaxed (except when I'm neither wearing a mask nor holding my nose with my fingers).
Thanks a lot, once again, for your valuable advice. I've printed all of your messages so as to go through them carefully again. I appreciate being told sincerely that diving is not for everyone. It'll really make me feel better if I don't succeed. I'd also like to thank those who have pointed out that my problems are not uncommon, though I may have been the unlucky one to combine them all. All of this will make the conversation I inted to have with my instructor at the end of the forthcoming course much more productive.
Now that I've tried it, I'm more willing than ever to put in all the effort which is required. I do love the feeling of being underwater, and I understand the importance of learning all the safety procedures well so that diving will be pleasurable and not dangerous. This is what I said before: even if I have to give up, I'm extremely happy to have tried. Even though every single day of my OWD courses has been part success and part failure, there's not one when I haven't got out of the swimming pool with a smile on my face. Wish me luck!
Good luck Colombo.
It sounds like you have the right attitude if not the aptitude. I hope the third time works out better for you, diving really is a relaxing pastime, but there is no point in pushing too hard on something that may end up hurting you if not done right.
Take care.
It sounds like you have the right attitude if not the aptitude. I hope the third time works out better for you, diving really is a relaxing pastime, but there is no point in pushing too hard on something that may end up hurting you if not done right.
Take care.
How close are you to the Mediterranean coast? Bring your mask, fins, and snorkel for a few weekend holidays. See if you can find some guided snorkeling trips. It will be a lot more fun than looking at a swimming pool plaster. Just up the coast in France is where the sport began.
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Agree. When you said "most of the best instructors" I got the intentional vagueness right away. I've gotten to know your written word ability over time.
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