Brand Advice for BCD/Regulators/Tanks?

[Belzelbub]

For reg, I've heard a lot of good about Atomic (from the shop), but their online lists having Zeagle/Hollis/Oceanic as well. Will be a bit more briefed on this after today.

Well, all of those are the same brand, pretty much. All part of Huish Outdoors today. I’ve really got nothing bad to say about any of them. All quality brands with different origins.

Oceanic and Hollis were founded by Bob Hollis back in the 70’s. Aeris was a sister brand, but was EOL’d a while ago. Hollis was kind of the techier version of Oceanic, but a lot of similarity between the two. Oceanic/Hollis is more recently part of Huish when compared to Atomic/Zeagle.

Atomic was founded by former ScubaPro engineers. All Atomic regs are piston, and by Atomic’s own admission, all breathe the same. They did incorporate some new features in their regulators. Such as the auto venturi, and seat saver. The auto venturi is pretty cool. Instead of using a switch to control the Venturi vane, the regulator does this automatically. The seat saver is another Atomic first. When not under pressure, the seat moves away from the orifice, theoretically for less wear and tear.

Zeagle was founded in Florida by an avid skydiver. They started making parachute rigging, then switched to SCUBA. They introduced a lot of concepts including the weight integrated BC. The ripcord weight release in their BCs is also unique, and comes from the skydiving origins. Early Zeagle regulators were actually rebranded Apeks, but they started making their own designs around 1990 or so. Zeagle regs are all diaphragm. I’ve got 3 Zeagle regs in the family. Oldest is around 18 years old and still works great. That one is discontinued, but still serviceable as it uses the exact same kit as the newest one which was purchased this year. The Zeagle 2nds benefitted from some Atomic improvements, and a few years ago they offered an upgrade for older regulators. My Flathead 7/Z already had the upgrade, my old DS-V did not, but I had it upgraded a few years ago.

Of the brands listed, I’ve only dove with Zeagle and Atomic. Both are great and I wouldn’t hesitate to won either. I prefer environmentally sealed regs, so the Zeagles, being diaphragm, are easier to seal. My dad has an Oceanic reg. No complaints, though he doesn’t dive quite as much as I do.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Yeah that adds up, I breathed a lot better on the Scubapro (maybe it was a 200?) one they swapped me to over the Mares. It just felt like a lot of work to get a breath on the Mares, which was not the way my pool dive should have started.

I was looking at the Peregrine, it was what my instructor dove for the checkout dive(s). Seems like a pretty good deal and the company seems well liked. I saw some complaints about issues getting the data onto a PC for logging, but otherwise seems solid.

Makes sense, so Florida diving (not a chance of ice lol) would have me going balanced and sealed. I guess the "trial and error" would be checking the piston vs diaphragm feel out.

The harder breathing was due to the second stage. I’m sure both first stages were balanced meaning that the internal pressure was probably 135 to 140 psi constant pressure being fed into the second stage. Scubapro 2nd stages are known to be exceptionally smooth breathers and same with Atomics. Atomic was started by two guys who used to be engineers at Scubapro BTW.
Scubapro balanced second stages are the most copied 2nd stages in the scuba industry. I have a few older all metal Scubapro second stages that are classics now and very collectible that breathe like velvet. Regs last a very long time if they are taken care of well and not worked on by hack technicians.
I can’t help you with the Mares regs because I’ve never used one, never had a reason to.
A lot of people here seem to bag on unsealed piston regs because water enters through the holes where the depth compensating chamber is. They are designed to be that way and are an open system, unless they are packed with grease and covered with a seal but that is another matter. Pistons are incredibly simple and durable and great performers. They just need to be rinsed well after use. If you’re going to dive water above 46 degrees then you could pick either one. Diaphragm regs can be sealed easier and even if the end cap is not sealed then they are kind of semi sealed in that the water will press against the diaphragm to depth compensate instead of how water surrounds the piston stem in the piston reg, but diaphragm regs also have more parts and in theory move less air under heavy demands. This is not as true as it once was, but back when the diaphragm was smaller, thicker, and less flexible if you were sharing air with a diver down deep and both were huffing air at a good pace from excitement the reg could be over breathed. The diaphragm is nothing more than a rubber disc that is limited by it’s flexibility whereas the piston slides in a cylinder and is basically unrestricted in movement as air demand increases.
If you are in the store and get a chance, ask them if you can do a regulator test. Hook up a diaphragm reg with two 2nd stages to a tank. Hold down the purge bottom on the primary second stage then while you still have that one wide open depress the other 2nd (octo) wide open and see what happens to the flow. Do the same with the piston reg set and see what the difference is.
You can probably tell I’m a piston fan.
Atomic makes some damn nice stuff just ask @rsingler.
Pricey but arguably the best regs in the world.

 

[Centrals]

It is never easy for a beginner to buy equipment of any sort.
I dive more or less exclusively in SE Asia and never seen any dive guide, unguided dive is extremely rare there(by law), use expensive equipment.
All scuba equipment is SAFE and the only issue is the person who is using it.

 

[SubNeo]

Ok the shop had a lot of into to convey. I'll try to wrap things up but summarize what I've figured out by listing some of the selection.

BCD: I was told most people only switch to backplate/wing for a reason they will eventually decide on, otherwise most go back at first. I was looking at the Zeagle Stiletto and Ranger in the shop, they seem similar overall. They sell Atomic (for double the pricetag of Zeagle so nty) and Oceanic, but he told me the Oceanic models they sell are more on the "cheaper side" and don't provide much and are a pain to clean.
Regulator: Had a very long chat with the guy, he said he would go Atomic Z2 for the reasons I described during the dive. He said Mares feel cheapo and the Scubapro I used was not balanced. Said the Z2 is balanced and should breathe much like normal. He showed a bundle combining this with a Zeagle octo and a SPG (pressure and depth) for about $700. The Zeagle octo had a shutoff "lever" on the side to prevent freeflows.
Tanks: Said to rent until I decide what I like, steel or aluminum.
Computer: He said he tells everyone to just buy a computer and just have the gauge/console for depth/pressure. I mentioned the Shearwater Peregrine and he pulled up one from the case and went through it thoroughly. Seems like a safe selection.

He also said to let him know if/when I return and he would help me get a handful of options to try for a "nicer price." Sorta a "try in the pool once" like my Open Water I suppose.

 

[MaxE]

Ok the shop had a lot of into to convey. I'll try to wrap things up but summarize what I've figured out by listing some of the selection.

BCD: I was told most people only switch to backplate/wing for a reason they will eventually decide on, otherwise most go back at first. I was looking at the Zeagle Stiletto and Ranger in the shop, they seem similar overall. They sell Atomic (for double the pricetag of Zeagle so nty) and Oceanic, but he told me the Oceanic models they sell are more on the "cheaper side" and don't provide much and are a pain to clean.
Regulator: Had a very long chat with the guy, he said he would go Atomic Z2 for the reasons I described during the dive. He said Mares feel cheapo and the Scubapro I used was not balanced. Said the Z2 is balanced and should breathe much like normal. He showed a bundle combining this with a Zeagle octo and a SPG (pressure and depth) for about $700. The Zeagle octo had a shutoff "lever" on the side to prevent freeflows.
Tanks: Said to rent until I decide what I like, steel or aluminum.
Computer: He said he tells everyone to just buy a computer and just have the gauge/console for depth/pressure. I mentioned the Shearwater Peregrine and he pulled up one from the case and went through it thoroughly. Seems like a safe selection.

He also said to let him know if/when I return and he would help me get a handful of options to try for a "nicer price." Sorta a "try in the pool once" like my Open Water I suppose.

The reg package atomic seems fine. I dive atomic regs and love them. There is no need for a depth gauge, that’s what the computer is. I would get a simple SPG (2 or 2.5 inch brass and glass) that should be about $80, brand does not matter, I think they are all made in the same Italian factory. A 2nd Z2 2nd stage is about $200. If it were me I would spend the extra ~$100 for a real 2nd stage.
I dive a BP and wing and am biased and will own that. I have no issue with a shop pushing what they sell, that’s business. Do they sell BP/W, do they have one in stock? If not is them steering you away their biases, are they pushing inventory they have money tied up in ?
Get the Shearwater.

 

[SubNeo]

Having the second depth reading wouldn't worry you for any situation where the computer fails and cannot give you depth? Or is this one of those situations where you would push reliance to your buddy to help safely finish the ascent?

They did not have any wing that I saw. They explained that people move to wing BCDs when they are seeking to either go for lightweight travel or have something specific moving them that direction.

 

[MaxE]

Having the second depth reading wouldn't worry you for any situation where the computer fails and cannot give you depth? Or is this one of those situations where you would push reliance to your buddy to help safely finish the ascent?

They did not have any wing that I saw. They explained that people move to wing BCDs when they are seeking to either go for lightweight travel or have something specific moving them that direction.

If the computer failed you won’t know dive time or remaining NDL. You slowly and safely end your dive and ascend. Having a depth gauge does absolutely nothing to change that, only a 2nd computer would

A bp/w is very simple, plate, webbing, and a wing. The plate is a hunk of metal, if you destroy that I want to hear the story. Webbing is $25. If you cut the webbing or it frays overtime it’s $25. Guess how much it costs to replace the webbing on a $400 bc? You can’t, so $400. Wings very in price but let’s say $280. Guess how much a replacement bladder on the same $400 bc is? Yep $400. Now you see why some are wary of shop recommendations and what motivate them. What is the a shops best interest for business may now be the same as your best intrastate If your in FL particular near the freshwater spots you need to seek out shops that will rent you a bp/w. The best advice you have gotten is to try them all before you buy. Again, question why any shop wants to rush you into purchasing everything so fast

 

[SubNeo]

The one BCD I was shown (think it was the Ranger) could be pulled apart piece by piece and replaced accordingly. They could pop out the old bladder and swap in a new bladder in a few minutes (supposedly). Also, how would I find a way to "destroy" the webbing of a BCD to the extent it could not be repaired?!

I wasn't being pressured into buying anything, they said most people just buy and assemble the BP/W online. I haven't found any local shops that sell BP/W or rent them to my knowledge yet. They seemed like more of a "technical diving" concept, not so much casual rec use.

 

[Bigbella]

You will, no doubt, receive as many differing opinions, as there are divers.

My first fifteen years or so, I simply dove with a hard backpack with nylon straps; a weight-belt; tank (an old steel 50 and a 72, still in the garage); no floatation, save for my 7 mm wetsuit; and nothing more -- did a great deal of swimming. The regulator was a Poseidon Cyklon 300, which I still use, among several others, of that same brand, along with an SPG, which I still insist upon using, since I have seen innumerable computer failures since their inception, in the late 1980s-90s; and while working on boats. I also regularly carry an analogue dive watch; and have yet to call a dive, for any electronic failure — over thousands of dives.

Computers, over the years, have included the Oceanic Datamax-Pro; the Suunto Solution, from the early 1990s; a Suunto Cobra II from the early 2000s; and the Poseidon M28 (for open and closed circuit diving), from 2016 or so.

My first "formal" BC was a Zeagle (I don't recall them having names back then), which I purchased in 1991-2, which still sees use, almost thirty years later -- to which I have added, the “Ranger,” and the discontinued “Zeus,” a lighter, more compact model, for travel, which even sees some commercial use. I haven't missed my weight belt. The tanks were steel Genesis 100s, which are still regularly used.

The current regulators are Poseidon Jetstreams; Xstreams; Cyklon 5000s; the Atmosphere FFM; and the old Cyklon 300s on bailout bottles -- all of which, have earned erroneous reputations, for being difficult to work upon and to maintain; which is an absolute crock, since I have worked on them for years -- kept our fleet running -- without ever facing any difficulties. They all breathe like a dream and we can still readily find parts for models, produced before I was born. The same cannot be said for a number of other brands.

That being said, I would only seek out well-established brands and religiously avoid any local scuba shop package deals, since they almost always conceal some weakness; some lower-shelf old crap they wish to jettison . . .

 

[formernuke]

was told most people only switch to backplate/wing for a reason they will eventually decide on,

I'm going to totally disagree here, had I known bpw existed when I got my first BC it would have been a BPW. The important thing is what is the diver most comfortable in, this varies person to person.