Does More (exercised) Muscle = Better Efficiency?

[Blackcrusader]

While the resulting SAC rate is impressive, I don’t think it would withstand exploratory dives where one covers hundreds and hundreds of meters.

I've done 90 minute dives where I covered 1.5km from boat and ended the dive with a shore exit at the dive center. The dive was actually more of a swim back to the dive center. With good technique and a steady pace Even doing exploratory dives covering hundreds of meters my SAC rate is still less than 10l min at a nice steady pace. Same when I swim against currents. Managing your technique do you don't over exert and get tired out is important. I was on a dive into a current with a diver with two AL 80's on sidemount. He had less air at the end of the dive than I did as he struggled with the current. He should have taken some rest stops along the way but decided not to and really was too tired. I would duck behind a large fan, or some outcrops and take rests while this other diver would do 10 fin kicks and only be another 2 meters gained and I easily caught up. He did not make the next dive 90 minutes later as he was too worn out and he was half my age. Do you think every dive is done in optimal conditions?

The OP was asking about efficiency.... being efficient applies to diving with a current or into a current. Good techniques and not over exerting when into currents will also give divers better dive times. I often see divers who really over exert themselves when swimming into a current. They try to go too fast and tire themselves out and get into heavy breathing even to the point they nearly hyperventilate. That's just bad technique. Using less motion means requiring less air.

Here I am chasing down a whale shark at near full pace to get some photo's you can see I pass another diver as well. A few hundred meters covered.. But I still keep a decent use of air. Still completed a 90 minute dive after this chase at 32m depth.

 

[Celt]

You need to do enough exercise to be able to get the job done, any more is just wear and tear.

 

[DogDiver]

Yeah, I’m just not buying all of your assertions here. You post as if we should marvel at your naturally-gifted dive physiology. Anybody can learn to stay motionless and breath hold and that’s what I see in the video.

But what’s your consumption like when the sh*t hits the fan? Or solo guiding in coral tunnels with a group of seven where you have to cover the whole group from front to rear? Or having to beat into a current to get out of the direction of drift? I think more proficient divers will talk about the increase in their consumption under various conditions rather than try to convince everybody how low their SAC is.

I just don’t see the consumption you’re sharing as extrapolating into optimal performance under all conditions. I remember the last video where you were on a reef and wiggled a fin once or twice. While the resulting SAC rate is impressive, I don’t think it would withstand exploratory dives where one covers hundreds and hundreds of meters.

Those rates are diving with 180 pounds of cave diving gear in a high flow system and at 110 feet of depth.

 

[NothingClever]

Those rates are diving with 180 pounds of cave diving gear in a high flow system and at 110 feet of depth.

@DogDiver - I trust your fitness level and experience. My post you quoted was intended for another forum member.

 

[mtoyama]

"Bulking out" is a mischaracterization of strength training. Just because an activity doesn't require explosive strength doesn't mean strength training can't be of some benefit.

This. The thinking that strength training isn't valuable for endurance-type sports is very old school.

I wish we had better continuing education on exercise science. When I started training for alpine climbing, I read a book on the cutting edge training for high end endurance athletes and it completely upended my understanding of exercise, which I'd held for something like 10-15 years.

I'm now thinking about this again as I'm a newer diver with not great bottom times. I'm out of shape in general. So how should I train?

A lot of people ask me why I spend so much time thinking about training plans, etc, they say "just go out and do the thing." Personally, this is my thinking:

• Fitness adds a safety layer to activities like diving and climbing. When things go wrong, having energy reserves, or being able to expend less energy / air in challenging situations could save your life.
• Fitness adds to my enjoyment of the activity as it becomes less of a painful slog (e.g. surface swimming, or even walking on the beach with full gear)
• I don't have a ton of time to exercise. So, as long as I'm still enjoying myself, I might as well maximize what time I have for exercise with at least some high level structure.

Again, my personal thinking. Do what works for you as long as you stay active.

Not an expert at all but I assume that an endurance-based training plan focusing on the motions performed by divers would improve oxygen efficiency and reduce air consumption. Such a plan would include weight training, cardio training, and specific training. Does anyone know if there's any literature / resources out there that go into this in detail for diving?

 

[Outbound]

I just turned 60 and went to see a heart lung specialist to make sure I am still in OK health. He had me take the elevator back down to the third level basement car park then walk back up 8 flights of steps where he then took my heart rate and blood pressure. He was a wee bit surprised.

View attachment 621616

Oh yeah? Well, my doctor had me climb Everest and then took my vitals as soon as I summited and my heart rate was 35 bpm. Yeah, that totally happened.

In case you missed my point, I'm calling total BS on you having a heart rate of 58bpm immediately after climbing 8 flights of stairs.

 

[mtoyama]

Oh yeah? Well, my doctor had me climb Everest and then took my vitals as soon as I summited and my heart rate was 35 bpm. Yeah, that totally happened.

In case you missed my point, I'm calling total BS on you having a heart rate of 58bpm immediately after climbing 8 flights of stairs.

I'm not sure it's worth spending a ton of time on individual folks' physiology, so I think both of your points are valid here.

Mountaineers should be targeting a low heart rate when they climb (ie like zone1-2) because mountaineering is a very long duration endurance activity.

So, a highly trained mountaineer could be climbing at 100-120 bpm (eh, maybe not at the top of Everest given the altitude... but whatever), then within 2-5 minutes at rest their heart rate could easily drop down below 60 bpm. A highly trained person could easily climb 8 flights of stairs and see similar levels of HR recovery.

 

[Outbound]

I'm not sure it's worth spending a ton of time on individual folks' physiology, so I think both of your points are valid here.

Mountaineers should be targeting a low heart rate when they climb (ie like zone1-2) because mountaineering is a very long duration endurance activity.

So, a highly trained mountaineer could be climbing at 100-120 bpm (eh, maybe not at the top of Everest given the altitude... but whatever), then within 2-5 minutes at rest their heart rate could easily drop down below 60 bpm. A highly trained person could easily climb 8 flights of stairs and see similar levels of HR recovery.

Sure, but that's about your recovery. Blackcrusader said that he walked up 8 flights of stairs and then the doc took his heart rate, making it sound like it happened immediately after arriving at the top. I agree that it's not worth spending time discussing our individual physiologies, which is why I was poking fun at Blackcrusader, who posted several times on this thread to tell us all what a superhumanly fit, efficient swimmer/finner he is.

 

[mtoyama]

Sure, but that's about your recovery. Blackcrusader said that he walked up 8 flights of stairs and then the doc took his heart rate, making it sound like it happened immediately after arriving at the top. I agree that it's not worth spending time discussing our individual physiologies, which is why I was poking fun at Blackcrusader, who posted several times on this thread to tell us all what a superhumanly fit, efficient swimmer/finner he is.

Yes, I'd like to know the methodology too. It's not a super valuable test on its own unless you observe how the individual climbed the stairs. If they sprinted up them, they'd have a much higher heart rate.

However, there's independent value in measuring how fast their heart rate recovers from any level after I looked at some literature just now.

I'm also confused about the value of posting all that. I think Blackcrusader was trying to say that muscular / big folks can have a low SAC??

 

[Blackcrusader]

I think Blackcrusader was trying to say that muscular / big folks can have a low SAC??

Something like that. Some people think that larger people will use air at a faster rate than other people. I'm not super fit but I take daily morning walks around the mountain trails where I live. I have to take my dog to poop and pee in the forest.