burping loop

[stuartv]

If the elbow pops off the wing when you hop in the water, you're goin down. That simple.

A friend of mine had a rocket ascent to the surface when his wing inflated. All the way up. And that was just with one wing. It happens fast.

Isn't the normal thing when you hop in the water to be going down anyway? I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just saying that, generally speaking, when I splash on a technical dive, I probably wouldn't even notice if the elbow popped off until I got (almost) to the bottom anyway. Meaning, when I did notice, I would have plenty of time to address it without being in a huge rush.

When your friend corked, did his wing inflate unprovoked? Or did it inflate after sticking, after he hit the button? In other words, at the point where he realized he needed to disconnect an inflator, was there any doubt regarding what inflator needed to be disconnected (or, would there have been if he also had a second inflator)?

None of that addresses the question of simply having the 2nd wing hooked up, if it's the kind of dive where dropping straight to the bottom would be a real problem.

What if you connected an inflator to the redundant wing bladder and put an inline shutoff on it?

 

[rddvet]

Isn't the normal thing when you hop in the water to be going down anyway?

Yes, but we're talkin about someone who is overweighted enough that they need a redundant wing (aka diving 104s wet). So they're going to drop fast and not recover fast enough.

 

[flymolo]

Isn't the normal thing when you hop in the water to be going down anyway? I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just saying that, generally speaking, when I splash on a technical dive, I probably wouldn't even notice if the elbow popped off until I got (almost) to the bottom anyway. Meaning, when I did notice, I would have plenty of time to address it without being in a huge rush.

When your friend corked, did his wing inflate unprovoked? Or did it inflate after sticking, after he hit the button? In other words, at the point where he realized he needed to disconnect an inflator, was there any doubt regarding what inflator needed to be disconnected (or, would there have been if he also had a second inflator)?

None of that addresses the question of simply having the 2nd wing hooked up, if it's the kind of dive where dropping straight to the bottom would be a real problem.

What if you connected an inflator to the redundant wing bladder and put an inline shutoff on it?

I think the bottom here was 600 ft

 

[PfcAJ]

Isn't the normal thing when you hop in the water to be going down anyway? I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just saying that, generally speaking, when I splash on a technical dive, I probably wouldn't even notice if the elbow popped off until I got (almost) to the bottom anyway. Meaning, when I did notice, I would have plenty of time to address it without being in a huge rush.

When your friend corked, did his wing inflate unprovoked? Or did it inflate after sticking, after he hit the button? In other words, at the point where he realized he needed to disconnect an inflator, was there any doubt regarding what inflator needed to be disconnected (or, would there have been if he also had a second inflator)?

None of that addresses the question of simply having the 2nd wing hooked up, if it's the kind of dive where dropping straight to the bottom would be a real problem.

What if you connected an inflator to the redundant wing bladder and put an inline shutoff on it?

Its normal to be in control. You are not in control if you're over weighted with 104s in a wetsuit and no wing.

It rapidly started inflating. IIRC it just cut loose.

You can avoid all this nonsense by just diving a balanced rig and getting on with your life.

 

[stuartv]

Its normal to be in control. You are not in control if you're over weighted with 104s in a wetsuit and no wing.

It rapidly started inflating. IIRC it just cut loose.

You can avoid all this nonsense by just diving a balanced rig and getting on with your life.

So, you don't ever feel a need to dive with redundant buoyancy?

 

[Wibble]

So, you don't ever feel a need to dive with redundant buoyancy?

Or deploy the SMB (an auto-inflating CO2 or 0.1 litre "crack bottle") would be very fast to deploy, certainly if you're finning upwards to slow the descent.

Diving a rig that overweighted isn't good. The BCD should be used to counteract only the weight you 'consume' during the dive; gas, SMB, stage cylinders.

If the rig's inherently overweighted, then you need to add some solid buoyancy to it (or change the rig). Carbon tins for example.

 

[PfcAJ]

So, you don't ever feel a need to dive with redundant buoyancy?

I have a drysuit for dives with heavy ass tanks. Immediately accessible, vents via position rather than pressing a button, yadda yadda.

Hot out and I wanna rock a wetsuit? Al80s.

 

[sea_ledford]

Isn't the normal thing when you hop in the water to be going down anyway? I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm just saying that, generally speaking, when I splash on a technical dive, I probably wouldn't even notice if the elbow popped off until I got (almost) to the bottom anyway. Meaning, when I did notice, I would have plenty of time to address it without being in a huge rush.

When your friend corked, did his wing inflate unprovoked? Or did it inflate after sticking, after he hit the button? In other words, at the point where he realized he needed to disconnect an inflator, was there any doubt regarding what inflator needed to be disconnected (or, would there have been if he also had a second inflator)?

None of that addresses the question of simply having the 2nd wing hooked up, if it's the kind of dive where dropping straight to the bottom would be a real problem.

What if you connected an inflator to the redundant wing bladder and put an inline shutoff on it?

The specific set up the diver was running was to have the backup inflator stowed attached to a loop in the wing, so it was accessible by reaching behind, but it was not over the right shoulder all the time. He had the QD hose mated with the BC inflator with some ranger bands, but it was not connected. To deploy the backup, he would have to reach behind his armpit basically, (about where a light switch would be on an older style canister light), pull it out of the storage loop, and over his shoulder before connecting the QD. We timed his deployment a couple times, I don't remember how long it was, but maybe 10-15 seconds?

A complete loss of buoyancy upon entry would have probably been really bad. He would have been mid water over multiple hundreds of feet of water, nothing around to hold. Being over 30 lbs negative, if he was really fast he probably could have recovered by about 100 feet, hopefully with both ears still intact. If he wasn't fast, narcosis would have certainly become a significant factor in his chances of survival.

A complete loss of buoyancy at depth, a best case scenario is ending up at 200-220' on the next deeper horizontal section of the oil platforms we were diving, well beyond the MOD and outside of our emergency procedures. At least he would have had the gas to deco out!

 

[rddvet]

So, you don't ever feel a need to dive with redundant buoyancy?

Yes. A drysuit. Redundant wing? No

 

[stuartv]

Yes. A drysuit. Redundant wing? No

My question was because this:

You can avoid all this nonsense by just diving a balanced rig and getting on with your life.

which makes it sound like he thinks you never NEED redundant buoyancy.