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Those not named Cheney anyway.

Easy answer . . when you are sitting nice and safe and dry on land and not taking on water. I don't mean to be snide, but I've owned a bigger ocean going boat and I always made it a point to be prepared and properly outfitted. I'm also one who has made it a point to relax and avoid panic when...

Sorry, as I said, if I was understanding correctly. I wasn't.

If all that is true, then I think the shop is on the hook, at least civilly, as well. If he's uninsured on his own and thus his agency lists him and unable to teach (if I am following correctly), then the shop shouldn't have been leting him teach, even under their insurance, and if they did...

Well as I have been pretty clear, there is a responsibility on hois part. And he certainly needs to be sanctioned on some level. I said that a couple of times. I just feel that it is important that people realize AL involved in this dive made decisions which go against what they have been told...

And that's my point. What I was sayiong about "sole responsibility" was that in this situation there wasn't any - and any that may exist is on each person for their own safety. Ultimately, as divers that is what we must face. We have to accept that in the end, we are responsible for our own...

I wouldn't agree that he is wrong. Even if this were the very first Open Water dives of a brand new diver I would disagree that the responsibilities for diving safely are purely the responsibility on the instructor. Granted there is a greater responsibility for him, however it is also incumbent...

Here's my thing about all of this. I wasn't even DONE with my open water classes before I knew that the type of dive these people engaged in was atrociously wreckless. 150+ plus dives into my diving experience (as Chad was reported to have been), I had certainly seen enough, heard enough and...

And here in lies a problem. With all due respect for Chad's friends and loved ones, he WAS a "diver that did such an unsafe dive" and Chad was one of those "2 guys on AL80's that was unsafe". I don't say this to be cruel or overly critical of Chad. But it is an important part of the equation...

Neil, I am very sorry for your families loss, and I hope that Chad can be found safely and soon. I also wish you luck in your investigation - if there really is a criminal wrong in this incident, I hope it brings the appropriate consequences involved. And whatever happens, I hope that more...

A decsion that they would all know goes against the very basic elements of what they were taught from the very minute they took a Scuba class. The guy's designation as an Instructor wouldn't negate facts that these TRAINED divers already knew. By ALL of those who participated. The negligence...

If there wasn't a BC and reg attached, my guess is that they had to endure a lot of ribbing for dropping their tank off the boat. :)

Certainly gives a new meaning to someone "blowing their brains out" in this case ;) As for it hurting more underwater, not sure it could hurt anywhere, above or below. I don't remember all of the biology I took over back in school, but I am pretty sure that in order to feel pain you need a...

I'd have to agree. The fact that the incident arose out of VERY poor decision making by those who participated in the dive (which carried a large possibility of tragedy) in no way negates the decisions that came later in the event. To forgoe one's own safety to try to ensure that of another is...

And there in lies a great point . . . training doesn't mean squat if it isn't put into proper practice.

I would say we should because someone who is NOT a poacher could learn from his mistakes and the advice given. This is an accident "analysis" forum so to speak and his experience could be a learning device for other, more respectful and respectable divers - his illegal activity is secondary to...

I'm just wondering if he is gonna wear the T-Shirt to his open casket funeral . . . which sounds like it will probably happen real soon.

None taken. There's nothing in the nature of our discussions that violates any ethical, moral or legal issues. . . and they certainly don't come near the level of specualtion, second guessing and supposition that I see in these threads at times.

That's the key. One of those investigating this incident (and the other RB fatality that occured here in southern California recently) is a long time friend of mine and I have been asking about updates on this case and the other. Even with the intent investigation that is ongoing, there are...

NM - see whole reply below