0 to Full Cave in 150 dives?

[Lorenzoid]

There are a whole lot of dry cavers who take up diving (ok maybe its only 10 or 20 per year globally lol).
They rarely take anything like fundamentals and many actually don't take cave diving courses at all. The UK has a cave diving mentorship program, run by volunteers, and you can't even "sign up" for it. You need to be an experienced and savvy dry caver with multiple years of experience and club relationships to go down this path.

Yep, that jibes with my thinking that there are very few people in a position to safely go from non-diver to full cave in 150 dives.

 

[rjack321]

any of the real UK sump divers will tell you that their definition of "cave diving" doesn't exactly translate to the normal definition of cave diving.... things like diving fundamentals don't apply in those caves, but I do agree that it's a better path to go down.

Call it what you will, but they will very much be doing quite serious overhead dives with barely any open water experience at all. Certainly less than 50 dives.

 

[tbone1004]

Call it what you will, but they will very much be doing quite serious overhead dives with barely any open water experience at all. Certainly less than 50 dives.

I wasn't discounting it, just saying that it's probably not a fair comparison as they are cavers that dive out of necessity and how they "look" in the water doesn't matter since half the time they aren't even wearing fins and are just crawling. No judgement, it's the best way to deal with those caves, but it's probably not a great analogy.

 

[Hartattack]

As someone who just went through GUE's Cave 1 w/ over 1,000 dives and recreational instructor certifications, including an academic diving program under their belt—150 dives is a bit eye opening to be certified to full cave. I say this because I received a provisional rating with all of that experience and have to go back and refine my skills in 104's a bit before I can pass via the Instructor.

While we are all on our own path and prodigies in every sport, one can be tempted to seek out how another with less experience can essentially pass them in certification. Scuba Diving can be a weird industry, but, alas—I'll continue on the path laid out for me.

Nevertheless, Bravo Zulu to the Guy/Gal who is Full Cave w/ 150 Dives.

 

[Esprise Me]

If the certification was issued in accordance with certifying agency guidelines and the student was trained by a well respected instructor that makes students earn certifications, I am not sure what the issue is. If you feel 150 dives is too few your concern should be targeted at certifying agency and their course prerequisites.

Maybe so. Does that mean we can't discuss it here?

It seems to me that if you're going to be a cave diver, or any kind of tech diver, you want to set aside the mentality that your instructor or certifying agency is responsible for determining whether you're good enough, safe enough, experienced enough, etc. Just because they let you into a cave with X number of dives doesn't mean you should go. And if you do, it doesn't mean we can't talk about you.

 

[SMcC]

I’m still anti 0 to full cave in 150 dives. I just don’t think you can adequately practice skills learned at each level along the way. Meaning you can’t do enough dives between cert levels to gain the experience you need to advance. Sure, you can pass the required tests and checkout on all the required dives but what happens when you’re 1000 feet from the exit and the line is just gone? Can you calm down enough at 151 dives to survive that?

 

[lermontov]

I’m still anti 0 to full cave in 150 dives. I just don’t think you can adequately practice skills learned at each level along the way. Meaning you can’t do enough dives between cert levels to gain the experience you need to advance. Sure, you can pass the required tests and checkout on all the required dives but what happens when you’re 1000 feet from the exit and the line is just gone? Can you calm down enough at 151 dives to survive that?

sometimes i think the diving community is too much in its own bubble- i remember reading a story about a reasonably newly minted diver who incurred some deco and was non plussed at having to spend time waiting to clear. seems he just recently returned back from active service where he was being shot at with live bullets on a regular basis - doing a few minutes of deco wasnt a stress. There are athletes from many high risk sports that are making critical decisions all the time, mountaineering for example is probably 10x more dangerous than diving.

 

[SMcC]

sometimes i think the diving community is too much in its own bubble- i remember reading a story about a reasonably newly minted diver who incurred some deco and was non plussed at having to spend time waiting to clear. seems he just recently returned back from active service where he was being shot at with live bullets on a regular basis - doing a few minutes of deco wasnt a stress. There are athletes from many high risk sports that are making critical decisions all the time, mountaineering for example is probably 10x more dangerous than diving.

Mountaineering is more dangerous than cave diving??

 

[admikar]

I’m still anti 0 to full cave in 150 dives. I just don’t think you can adequately practice skills learned at each level along the way. Meaning you can’t do enough dives between cert levels to gain the experience you need to advance. Sure, you can pass the required tests and checkout on all the required dives but what happens when you’re 1000 feet from the exit and the line is just gone? Can you calm down enough at 151 dives to survive that?

I won't go into p*** contest here, but I had total engine failure with about 60 hours on my freshly minted pilot licence. If I had panicked I would be just a smoking hole in the countryside. Was I stressed? You can bet I was. But I applied my training and I survived. And plane was cleared to fly after some minor repairs.
In your example, yes, it is a dangerous situation which shouldn't be taken lightly. But it can be survived. Will everyone survive it? Probably not. Will everyone die? Again, probably not.

 

[tbone1004]

Mountaineering is more dangerous than cave diving??

cave diving is mostly predictable, mountaineering is not. You have a LOT more control of your environment in cave diving. I.e. the flow almost never changes, the visibility almost never changes unless you screw it up which is predictable, the depth and temperature practically never change, etc etc. There are exceptions during flooding season and with tidal caves, but the majority of the caves you can go any time of year and any time of day or night and the conditions are exactly the same. That is HUGE when it comes into factoring risk. Also why you will rarely ever see a cave diver that says ocean diving is way more terrifying than cave diving.