If your training environment was not the ocean, taking a DM is a good idea... There is a big difference between dives in a quarry and open ocean where you must deal with current / tides / waves..
1st Ocean dives
- Thread starter MG11
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nolatom
Contributor
Not normal on shallower dives in good conditions, in my experience. Probably normal on what OP describes.
that said, I with about 90 dives at the time got instabuddied with a guy for his first ocean dive and maybe his 6th or so dive overall, to the Chrevron 2-piece rig way out off PCola (pre-Oriskany days). So this was one of the more "special" dives, more money, diesel fuel, depth. the rig tops out around 85 and the sand is 130'. As i recall this wasn't a boat that put their DM in for the dives.
We talked a lot pre-dive and I hoped for the best. And I got it. We went to 100' (top of the deeper of the two pieces) and he was pretty good all around for that level of non-experience, relaxed, good communicator, didn't use air too much faster than me, watched his gauges and me, it was a good dive. So I ended up glad I got the ocean-newbie and my hat (hood?) was off to whoever his instructor was out in Colorado or New Mexico or wherever.
I don't think you can generalize about this. Number of dives and breadth/depth of experience isn't always the deciding factor. Some people, well-taught, just 'get it' early on.
that said, I with about 90 dives at the time got instabuddied with a guy for his first ocean dive and maybe his 6th or so dive overall, to the Chrevron 2-piece rig way out off PCola (pre-Oriskany days). So this was one of the more "special" dives, more money, diesel fuel, depth. the rig tops out around 85 and the sand is 130'. As i recall this wasn't a boat that put their DM in for the dives.
We talked a lot pre-dive and I hoped for the best. And I got it. We went to 100' (top of the deeper of the two pieces) and he was pretty good all around for that level of non-experience, relaxed, good communicator, didn't use air too much faster than me, watched his gauges and me, it was a good dive. So I ended up glad I got the ocean-newbie and my hat (hood?) was off to whoever his instructor was out in Colorado or New Mexico or wherever.
I don't think you can generalize about this. Number of dives and breadth/depth of experience isn't always the deciding factor. Some people, well-taught, just 'get it' early on.
You have to be careful... I am sad to say that many places see you coming and want to try and milk you..Some lds are great but there are some that, if they dont know you, have no forward thinking and try to take your $$.
A lot of dive ops do this especially if the new diver is only OW certified and they have never done an ocean dive. A lot of Key's dives are either wreck dives or reef dives where the boat is anchored. As stated, ocean diving is a completely different animal than lake diving. First you are diving from a boat, your weighting is going to be different, your going to descend an anchor line and many other variables. That can be a large task load for a relatively new diver especially for an ocean dive. They have no idea what your skill level is and are not willing to risk it. There are a lot of dive ops in the Carribean that require checkout dives or a personal DM if you have not dove in the last year or are not AOW certified or have less than a certain number of dives.
I personally think it is a good idea and you would be well served to pay the additional fee, but that is just my opinion.
I personally think it is a good idea and you would be well served to pay the additional fee, but that is just my opinion.
DukeAMO
Contributor
I'm in the "AOW is good early" camp, because I think if it as advanced beginner training in the PADI world. However, it doesn't actually make you "advanced". You're still a beginner!
Even with AOW you wouldn't want to dive to 135 feet without more dives under your belt, double tanks, and deep diving training. For one thing, a single AL80 cylinder would only last a few minutes, so you wouldn't see much. For another thing, your no decompression limit at 135 feet is only 7 minutes according to the PADI tables. You'd have a much better dive at 75 feet than 135 feet.
Oh, I'm also in the "hiring a DM for your first dive or two in new conditions is good" camp.
Even with AOW you wouldn't want to dive to 135 feet without more dives under your belt, double tanks, and deep diving training. For one thing, a single AL80 cylinder would only last a few minutes, so you wouldn't see much. For another thing, your no decompression limit at 135 feet is only 7 minutes according to the PADI tables. You'd have a much better dive at 75 feet than 135 feet.
Oh, I'm also in the "hiring a DM for your first dive or two in new conditions is good" camp.
I did not train in the ocean or do checkouts there. My first ocean dive was to the well deck of the Spiegel Grove, I did have nearly 100 dives by that time and in fact did my 100th the end of that week back on the Grove.
If you are comfortable in the water and feel ok doing shallow reef dives to 60 ft then stick with that and you do not need to take a DM. If you have a buddy that is all you need. If conditions are good and your buddy is ok with it you're fine. Any op who tells you that you need to be with a DM for your first dives but if you're with the DM you can go below recreational levels is one I'd run from. I would also dive the shallow reefs and wrecks for a week, come home, and then do AOW. And find a good AOW course that will assess your new skill levels and build on them and your experience. Don't drop money just to drop money. That's a waste.
As you said there are plenty of ops in the keys that will do dives that are within your current training level. The deep wrecks are really cool, yes, but they will be there on the next trip and you'll enjoy them more with the new knowledge and skills you'll gain if you take an AOW class that actually gives you that. Spending the extra dough for what will essentially be a tour is not something I'd advise anyone to do. It happened to me that way. OW then AOW then a few specialties with no real dives just for fun to work on anything and just chill. Go to Florida, dive sites you can do now without spending extra cash, and have fun. Forget about more training. Work on what you have and get that down.
If you are comfortable in the water and feel ok doing shallow reef dives to 60 ft then stick with that and you do not need to take a DM. If you have a buddy that is all you need. If conditions are good and your buddy is ok with it you're fine. Any op who tells you that you need to be with a DM for your first dives but if you're with the DM you can go below recreational levels is one I'd run from. I would also dive the shallow reefs and wrecks for a week, come home, and then do AOW. And find a good AOW course that will assess your new skill levels and build on them and your experience. Don't drop money just to drop money. That's a waste.
As you said there are plenty of ops in the keys that will do dives that are within your current training level. The deep wrecks are really cool, yes, but they will be there on the next trip and you'll enjoy them more with the new knowledge and skills you'll gain if you take an AOW class that actually gives you that. Spending the extra dough for what will essentially be a tour is not something I'd advise anyone to do. It happened to me that way. OW then AOW then a few specialties with no real dives just for fun to work on anything and just chill. Go to Florida, dive sites you can do now without spending extra cash, and have fun. Forget about more training. Work on what you have and get that down.
That was my plan exactly, 5 days of shallow reef dives to gain experience, learn in actual water to use my computer and see stuff I've not seen before.
I was hoping to get experience this time while family vacationing then strap hang with my LDS on one of the many trips they take every year to do AOW/Nitrox.
If I do stick with this dive op and have to use a DM it's going to be the most boring dive he or she has ever been on because I will just have them watch me while I descend to the bottom and play with my computer and practice skills, I figure If I am paying for them they can do what I want and they probably need the practice too.
I was hoping to get experience this time while family vacationing then strap hang with my LDS on one of the many trips they take every year to do AOW/Nitrox.
If I do stick with this dive op and have to use a DM it's going to be the most boring dive he or she has ever been on because I will just have them watch me while I descend to the bottom and play with my computer and practice skills, I figure If I am paying for them they can do what I want and they probably need the practice too.
Just remember, you are paying him/her. Your dive, your rules, your plan - Love it!
ScubaSteve1962
Contributor
Where are you doing your dive?? It may not be normal for some dive ops, but it's a good idea. Diving in the ocean can be a different experience from diving in a quarry or lake with little to no visibility. you can have great visibility, and before you know it, be deeper than you planned, also having to deal with surges and current, and depending on the seas, getting on and off the boat can be an adventure. If you're in Key Largo, or Islamorada try Rainbow reef, they have guides in the water, but they are not mandatory, so if you just want to hang near the boat and work on your skills it's okay as long as you have a buddy with you. Their prices are the same as most of the ops without a guide. And they also have 2 boats that go out so you will have a choice, shallow or deep.
Dive Key Largo, Florida Keys with Rainbow Reef Dive Center;scuba diving:diving, Florida keys, florida diving
Dive Key Largo, Florida Keys with Rainbow Reef Dive Center;scuba diving:diving, Florida keys, florida diving
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