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Boogie711:
And when you read the work of Bjorn Lomborg or Ross McKitrick, get back to me...

Let me help you out here - this is an article which appeared in today's Toronto Sun:

Flawed science behind the Kyoto Accord

For years, many people believed the Earth was getting warmer and that modern man and his industries were to blame.

But how would those people react if they discovered that global warming ain’t all it’s cracked up to be? Well, if you’re in that camp, brace yourself. You’re in for a rude awakening.


Previously, scientists and environmental groups touted one scientific theory to justify their claim of global warming – the so-called “hockey stick” theory developed in 1998 by Prof. Michael Mann of the University of Virginia.

Mann, an environmental scientist, plotted temperature change in the northern hemisphere for the last 1,000 years.

He claimed that weather conditions remained fairly stable until the 20th century, when the temperature began to shoot up. This curvature, which visibly created the effect of a hockey stick, showed, Mann said, that we were living in a period of warmer weather. The hockey stick theory initially received huge support within the scientific community, and Mann’s findings were published in scientific journals.

It successfully passed two peer reviews at the United Nations’ International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), making global warming the new international cause celebre. Mann’s theory also led to the birth and approval of the Kyoto protocol, an attempt to combat global warming by reducing man made “greenhouse gas” emissions like carbon dioxide, thought to the be the major cause of the global warming phenomenon.

To be sure, the “hockey stick” theory had its skeptics. But, at first, the IPCC wouldn’t pay any attention to them and scientific journals wouldn’t publish their research.

Now, thanks largely to two Canadian researchers, that’s all changed. Due to their efforts, the hockey stick theory is now being widely challenged in the scientific community as an incomplete, flawed and ultimately invalid piece of research.

In January, University of Guelph economics professor Ross McKitrick and Toronto-based mineral exploration consultant Stephen McIntyre had their own article accepted in the important scientific journal, Geophysical Research Letters (the journal that published one of Mann’s earliest hockey stick papers). What they discovered helped snap Mann’s hockey stick
into pieces. Here are just a few of their findings.

• No academic or institution attempted to independently replicate the hockey stick theory before coming out in support of it. For all the billions of dollars spent on climate research, the theory was, incredibly, simply accepted as fact.

• When McIntyre tried to get the data from Mann in 2003, he was told by the lead author that he had “forgotten” the exact location. One of Mann’s colleagues said it would have to be compiled since it didn’t exist in one spot. McIntyre thought this “bizarre,” since he assumed “they would have some type of due-diligence package for the IPCC on hand.” They didn’t, because the IPCC hadn’t actually verified it.

• Finally, key statistics in the hockey stick study were called into question. Since reliable temperature measurements have only been available since 1850, today’s researchers use “proxies” such as tree rings to help determine global warming. Mann said he had used 112 proxies, but McIntyre countered that 35 were never used. Then, in 2003, five years after his initial study, Mann said he had used 159 proxies, a number never before disclosed.

When McIntyre and McKitrick asked for the original source code for this new information (which Mann refused to provide), they discovered a computer program on Mann’s FTP site, with 500 lines for calculating tree rings. They also found the tree-ring series with hockey stick shapes
dominated his original data.

As McIntyre put it: “Mann’s program mines for series with a hockey-stick shape.”

Here’s the kicker. McIntyre and McKitrick also discovered that the weather in the 15th century was actually warmer than in the 20th century. They found that out by replicating Mann’s temperature calculations on their own.

So now, the environmental science community is up in arms.


Mann’s theory still has supporters, but a growing number of climate experts are questioning it.

Unfortunately, the costly and ineffective by-product of this apparently flawed theory, Kyoto, came into effect in February.
 
I don't understand how the validity of the threat of global warming can be dicredited by one article filled with supposition and assumptions attacking one author and one admittedly flawed model. There are many more models and studies supporting the concept of global warming.

The basis of that article, and an uindertood fact by climatoligists (and all science as well) is the fact that earths systems are very complex and it's difficult to create a model to predict weather patterns. That's where it gets complicated and chaos theory is involved and many millions of variables get added in. Early models are indeed very difficult to substantiate and many are flawed, some greatly. However, the people that come up with this stuff are generally very inteligent and have no real personal gain (that it motive) to scream the sky is falling, unless for good reason they truly believe it is. And science as a profession is sceptical and critical of themselves and others.

I can appreciate scepticism toward the idea of global warming. But that scepticism should fuel a desire to seek the truth. And the best way to do that is to research opposiong issues, see who provides what evidence and what evidence is best supported.

a nice place to research some of this is on the american Institute of Physics site.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html

I hope this is helpful
 
yeehawherb:
I don't understand how the validity of the threat of global warming can be dicredited by one article filled with supposition and assumptions attacking one author and one admittedly flawed model.

See - stop right there.

This isn't just "one admittedly flawed model." This is THE model. This is the basis of the Kyoto protocol, the IPCC studies, and the UN work on climate change in general. It's the Stanley Cup or the Superbowl of climate change models...

... and it wasn't even peer reviewed! It was PROVEN to be flawed. It's a complete farce.

The IPCC was so horny to preach doom, gloom, and stop industrialization that they fell all over themselves to push this model at anyone with a pulse.

Oops.
 
Boogie711:
This isn't just "one admittedly flawed model." This is THE model... the basis of the Kyoto protocol, the IPCC studies, and the UN work on climate change in general.
There ye go with those pesky facts again!
It's so irritating when they don't fit.
Rick
 
I was listening to a program the other day and the scientists that study the amount of sunlight hitting the earth found that it has been increasing over the years. The reason, air pollution has been falling off. Very few peole use coal for heating, the belching smokestacks of smelters have declined, and electrical plants have become cleaner. The temperature is going up because more sunlight is getting to the earth's surface. Global warming due to lack of pollution? What's the solution?
 
Boogie711:
See - stop right there.

This isn't just "one admittedly flawed model." This is THE model. This is the basis of the Kyoto protocol, the IPCC studies, and the UN work on climate change in general. It's the Stanley Cup or the Superbowl of climate change models...

... and it wasn't even peer reviewed! It was PROVEN to be flawed. It's a complete farce.
Far from a complete farce. And the article posted in the Toronto paper is not balanced science reporting; it's not even up to date. It looks like some "science writer" (I use the term loosely) googled up some older Mann-bashing websites and did some cut & pasting without bothering to do follow-up research. This article is an embarrassment to the scientific community, and I am appalled that it made it's way into a major regional newspaper. I hope it's in the Opinion section.

The Mann/McIntyre & McKitrick "controversy" is really only so to the media and politicoes. For the scientific community, it's nothing more than standard peer review. The climate research community isn't picking "sides", because there aren't any. Neither party is more correct than the other, either. If you visit the main websites for each, you will see cogent arguments both for supporting and questioning Mann's climate analysis work. Mann is very much still at the forefront for climate research, and the two canadian statisticians are still very much active in critiquing his work.

The only legitimate faux paus made was by the United Nations for settling on a single climate model in formulating large-scale international policies. History is riddled with instances where inadequate datasets are used in such manner. Usually it operates backwards from Kyoto however, whereas the available data isn't robust enough to show patterns that are in fact present (i.e. fisheries stocks, low-level pollution). With the hockey stick model, the question (still QUITE far from resolved) is whether or no patterns seen are in fact real or statistical artifacts. There are teams of statisticians in both laboratories showing support for their interpretations, and really this issue is not one of climate research, but one of statistics. Climate data merely supplies the statistical models.

But rather than turn this thread into another ridiculous Mann vs. M&M bashfest, I suggest sticking more to the thread topic as it relates to corals. You may get your fill of Mann vs. M&M at these sites. These are the most relevant and current. Stay away from the Toronto Sun!
http://www.realclimate.org/
http://www.climateaudit.org/
 
DennisS:
I was listening to a program the other day and the scientists that study the amount of sunlight hitting the earth found that it has been increasing over the years. The reason, air pollution has been falling off. Very few peole use coal for heating, the belching smokestacks of smelters have declined, and electrical plants have become cleaner. The temperature is going up because more sunlight is getting to the earth's surface. Global warming due to lack of pollution? What's the solution?
here's the link from Nature that refers to that specifically.
http://www.nature.com/news/2005/050502/full/050502-8.html

I wouldn't hold your breath on this article. It looks VERY preliminary. I wish the public media would stay out of these journals and stop taking them out of context and/or exaggerating them. It makes me wonder whether or not science writers are even being properly educated anymore.
 
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