6cf or 13cf Pony

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meesier42

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Kennewick, WA
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I am planning on getting a bail out bottle, since in my years of diving I rarely have a buddy that I really trust and I do a fair amount of solo diving. I was looking for some expirience based advice on pony size.

From the math, a 6cf bottle should be enough for me to take complete a normal surfacing with a 5 minute 15 foot stop, from just about any depth (<130fsw).

But it would be helpful to hear from some people with expirience. I am good on air ( can complete a 60' for 60 minutes, a 5 minute stop at 15 and still surface with ~500psi), and before you jump on me for violating the tables, I normally dive Navy dive tables. I already have 2 complete regs so not worried about that.
 
meesier42:
I
From the math, a 6cf bottle should be enough for me to take complete a normal surfacing with a 5 minute 15 foot stop, from just about any depth (<130fsw).

What assumptions are you using? Using 1.00 cu ft / min SAC rate (elevated, ****-hitting-fan breathing), 1 min at depth, 30 fpm ascent rate and 3 min @15):

depth: 1 min * 5 ata * 1 = 5 cu ft
ascent: 4 min * 3 ata * 1 = 12 cu ft
stops: 3 min * 1.5 ata * 1 = 4.5 cu ft

that's 21.5 cu ft.
 
I bet you will get all sorts of replies,,,,some good and some really off the wall. This topic is covered every other day on SB,,,but you asked and deserve a reply. From my humble experience a 19cf bottle is a well rounded pick for the recreational or sport diver to use as a contingency source of gas....you can sit around for hours playing with SAC rates and consumption,,,,but the day you really need to use it, all that crunching of numbers goes out the window....a 6cf/13cf bottle is small for a true bail-out,,,,the 19cf is just right. The cost between the two in most retail shops will be small,,,,and before you ask--- sling it! :)
 
Even with a 0.50 SAC rate at 5 ata you will go through a 6cf in 2.5 mins, and a 13cf goes in 5.2 mins. Not a whole lot of room for error at depth in either one.
 
ok guys , thanks for the quick responses, but it is my practice when something fails, I bail out, ie head for surface, I did my figuring based on initial depth 100 fsw, begin acent within 1 minute at 60ft/min with a safety stop at 15ft for 3-5 minutes. then 30 seconds to surface from 15 ft.
you guys have convinced me that the 6cf is no good, just not enough spare time in that bottle, not to think what would happen if I were in an overhead environment or had to give it to my buddy.
Just seemed to me that a 19cf would be an awfully big tank as a bailout bottle.
 
I use a 13. The 6 would really only be suitable for a depth of around 100 feet and that would be pushing it.

http://www.spearfishingmagazine.com/index.html

If you follow that link and look at the bottom left of the page, there is an excel spreadsheet that you can download that will help you to calulate the air used on ascent and even gives the option for one safety stop.
 
meesier42:
ok guys , thanks for the quick responses, but it is my practice when something fails, I bail out, ie head for surface, I did my figuring based on initial depth 100 fsw, begin acent within 1 minute at 60ft/min with a safety stop at 15ft for 3-5 minutes. then 30 seconds to surface from 15 ft.
you guys have convinced me that the 6cf is no good, just not enough spare time in that bottle, not to think what would happen if I were in an overhead environment or had to give it to my buddy.
Just seemed to me that a 19cf would be an awfully big tank as a bailout bottle.

With respect.... a 19cf bottle is a piece of cake to swim and sling,,,you have ample gas for 'most' situations in o/w recreational setting. The 13cf will still be on the fence. Spreadsheets and calculations are great tools for 'gas management' operations,,,but again in rec. dives were you need to resort to a pony,,,you will be thinking of one thing...'air' and the surface,,,,stay calm-maintain a slow accent rate, but the object of the bottle is to allow you the reserve to again stick your head above water!
 
Actually, here's what I came up with from your scenario.

Assuming you dive a 60' perfectly square profile (as in, no time spent descending or ascending), and you stay there for 60 minutes, and you do a 5-minute stop at 15', and you end up with 500 psi in an Aluminum-80 originally filled to 3000 psi (giving 77.4 cu ft of air), your surface air consumption rate (SAC) is about 0.366 cubic feet per minute (cfm).

On a dive at 130', assuming you were still breathing your very respectable SAC and were not at all stressed, you'd need 4.71 cubic feet of air for the ascent at 30 feet per minute plus 2.66 cubic feet of air for a 5-minute stop at 15'. That puts you at 7.37 cubic feet of air to end the dive under normal conditions, which means the 6 cubic foot bailout is woefully inadequate -- if you're going to your bailout, you're almost certainly not under normal conditions, and you're almost certain to be stressed.

The 13 cubic foot pony is enough to get you from 130' to the surface, including the 5-minute stop at 15' you mentioned, assuming your stress level doesn't increase your SAC beyond 0.645 cfm. A 19 cubic foot pony would allow you to reach the surface at a normal ascent rate, including your 5-minute stop at 15', even with your SAC bumped all the way up to 0.943 cfm. If the dive's really going south fast, having your SAC double or triple isn't unheard of, and even if it doesn't, for every bit of additional air, you have more time to fix any problems before you become S&R practice.

6 cubic feet just plain isn't enough, unless you blow your ascent rates and skip your stops, which will certainly make a chamber ride much more likely to be necessary. 13 cubic feet will get you up, but if complications arise, you may have to blow the stop or trash your safe ascent -- it's better, but it's still tight enough to be unsettling. 19 cubic feet gives you the 6cf on top of the 13cf, which should give you time to handle a problem like an entanglement (say, like the one that cut your primary hose in the first place), while still making a safe ascent and stop(s). Plus, the difference between the 13cf and the 19cf is just a little length (they're the same diameter), and that's all but irrelevant. For 50% more emergency air, I'd go with a 19cf, for sure.

In fact, I did, and I carry it on all my dives.

(Postscript: If you were stressed enough that the 13cf pony would *just* be enough to get you to the surface at the normal safe ascent rate and including your 5-minute stop at 15', at that stressed SAC rate, the extra 6cf would buy you an extra 3:18 (three minutes and 18 seconds) at 130' to solve whatever problems you need to solve before you can start ascending. Is that worth a couple inches and really just a few bucks?)
 
dumpsterDiver:
I use a 13. The 6 would really only be suitable for a depth of around 100 feet and that would be pushing it.

http://www.spearfishingmagazine.com/index.html

If you follow that link and look at the bottom left of the page, there is an excel spreadsheet that you can download that will help you to calulate the air used on ascent and even gives the option for one safety stop.

I use a 13 as well.
 
I agree, at least 19cf size. 6cf and 13cf are pretty much for argon, not pony...
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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