80'S AL Tank Inspections - Eddy Current?

[in_cavediver]

VIP are governed by law (DOT) A DOT approved test company can fail a tank from a VIP. A VIP is done prior to doing a hydro test. If it fail a visual the tank then has the DOT marking x out.

Yes, VIP's are part of hydro and governed by the DOT. I'll skip whether that applies to personal cylinders.

VIP's by dive shop are NOT law and most dive shops are not 'licensed' by the DOT for this work. As such those shops do NOT have the authority to X out a tank. Period. Only a licensed hydro shop has that authority by law.

 

[drywaterdiv]

It does apply to all cylinders weither private or commerical

 

[oxyhacker]

Visual inspections may be, but not VIPs.

VIP stands for "Visual Inspection Program" and refers only to the "voluntrary" annual inspection done in the scuba industry. I think it was originally a trade name for one agency's scuba tank inspection program (possibly NASDS) but has since become pretty much a generic term.

The DOT has never used the the term.

Yes, VIP's are part of hydro and governed by the DOT.

 

[drywaterdiv]

OK,
Well lets break it down. A Vi/VIP is the same thing. DOT does set some guide lines for Dive Shops. DOT states that this is ok and this is not for pass or fail. A dive shop can say this tanks fails but I would hope if they take it to another dive shop they will say the same thing. It was stated earlier about vintage tanks. If you send it in for hydro-test and it fails they must stamp out the DOT markings not just drill a one in the bottom as was stated by anothe member. If you want to keep it vintage with the markings keep it at home and don't send it in for test.

 

[in_cavediver]

OK,
Well lets break it down. A Vi/VIP is the same thing. DOT does set some guide lines for Dive Shops. DOT states that this is ok and this is not for pass or fail. A dive shop can say this tanks fails but I would hope if they take it to another dive shop they will say the same thing. It was stated earlier about vintage tanks. If you send it in for hydro-test and it fails they must stamp out the DOT markings not just drill a one in the bottom as was stated by anothe member. If you want to keep it vintage with the markings keep it at home and don't send it in for test.

My one concern is this, Hydro shops are required to follow specific DOT/CGA guidelines when doing a visual inspection as a matter of law.

Dive shops (not licensed hydro shops) do not fall under the same rules. The visual inspections they do are optional and just part of an 'industry standard'. They do not have the force of law specifying what is specifically covered. Quite frankly, the quality of inspections done by dive shops is all over the place. Some excellent some just slapping stickers on.

As for whether personal cylinders are covered, an arguement can be made that the tanks are not involved in interstate or intrastate commerce and therefore are not governed by the DOT (assuming personal fills etc). In practice, its best to follow the DOT rules anyway, irregardless if they may technically fall outside the rules. Those details while academically interesting to some, really have little bearing on what a diver should really do.

Back to OP. A dive shop that is not a licensed hydro facilty does not have the authority to X out a tank without the owners consent. If they did this, they owe the OP new tanks.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

VIP are governed by law (DOT) A DOT approved test company can fail a tank from a VIP. A VIP is done prior to doing a hydro test. If it fail a visual the tank then has the DOT marking x out.

The visual inspection is done as part of the hydro test, but it is done after the hydro for a couple of very good reasons.

You want/need to inspect the tank after the hydro test to ensure it is dry inside. And you need to do it after the hydro, especially in the case of 6351-T6 tanks, as any incipent cracks may enlarge under the 5/3rds test pressure. It is not unknown to have an undetectable or within tolerances crack prior to the test and then have the tank either fail during the hydro (due to water leaking through the now much larger crack) or to have the tank then fail the VIP due to a now longer crack.

As a matter of practice, a test facility may drop a light down the neck prior to the hydro to look for gross indicators the tank is not worth testing, but the visual inspection that counts will come after the hydro.

And as indicated in a previous post, the test facility visual is required by law, but the dive shop's visual inspection is just a scuba industry standard, is not governed by law and does not grant the tester the authority to condemn a tank.

The shop VIP will still serve the dive shops purposes (ie. we don't think it's safe so we refuse to fill it, even if a legally required visual is not due for another 1-4 years when the tank is due for requalification (hydro testing).

It also serves the shops purpose since as soon as the tank comes back from hydro, as most shops gouge you for their VIP and sticker even though it has obviously just passed the legally required visual inspection by the test facility. That is just a blatant example of making money of a customer for absolutley no reason. They would charge $0.50 for the shop VIP sticker and leave it at that if they were not interested abusing the diver's checkbook. Condemning the tank for an unoffical industry standard VIP, with the knowledge that the diver is possibly going to then buy a replacement from them, is an even more blatant abuse of the customer.

 

[fweber]

Something is being misinterpreted by either the OP or the shop he's dealing with. Visuals are an "inspection", not a "test". Eddy current devices are a tool for locating areas of concern. They do not provide a "pass/fail test". They do help ensure that the technician looks more closely at questionable areas.

 

[Diver Rick]

Does anyone know where the most up to date chart is describing which tanks are which?

I have 7 aluminum tanks, of various vintages, some going back to 1983. I would like to look up all of these tanks and see which ones I should be getting Eddy tests on and which ones wold be a waste of money to do the extra tests on.

Thanks.

 

[Leadking]

Does anyone know where the most up to date chart is describing which tanks are which?

I have 7 aluminum tanks, of various vintages, some going back to 1983. I would like to look up all of these tanks and see which ones I should be getting Eddy tests on and which ones wold be a waste of money to do the extra tests on.

Thanks.

All aluminum cylinders except Catalina made before June 1988 are considered made of 6351 alloy. There is no 6498 alloy, that is an exemption number originally used before the ICC, now DOT, developed the 3AL standard.

 

[Nemrod]

This subject and hydros and VIPs has more baloney than any other scuba subject.

You might as well get rid of those old aluminum tanks--rumors are rampant that all steel and aluminum tank prices are going up soon--act now to get rid of those headaches. They are just not worth the hassle.

VIP is not required by DOT. The VIP is a scuba industry practice and has no legal requirment

Personal tanks do not require a hydro, if you have your own compressor you can do as you please. You can also remove those tags on pillows and matresses that say "do not remove under penelty of law" and low and behold but Homeland Secuity does not go to Code Orange and does not send black suited thugs to arrest you.

N