A couple questions on ordering first drysuit

[DFM62]

Did he discover why his suit flooded with the valve open? Even with the valve open, it's a one way valve designed to let pee out but prevent water from coming in. Even if the valve was not working correctly, it should have been more of a thin stream of cold water coming in and stopping very noticeably at the end of the condom catheter sealed around his penis rather than a flooding event.
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It was a zip, not a valve (I've corrected that) . He said it was hard to close it quickly - crotch strap got in the way and in 6C water you don't have much time. By the time he got it closed, he already got soaked.

I'm not saying it can't be a good thing to have, only that you should think carefully abvout whether you really need it or not.

 

[Mike1967]

For pockets I have seen some people put them on the front of their thighs for sidemount diving (instead of the sides).

Towards the back is better, if they're on the front you still have to reach between your body and the tank.

 

[Mike1967]

He said it was hard to close it quickly - crotch strap got in the way and in 6C water you don't have much time. By the time he got it closed, he already got soaked.

Wait what, he opened it underwater???

 

[bradymsu]

It was a zip, not a valve (I've corrected that) . He said it was hard to close it quickly - crotch strap got in the way and in 6C water you don't have much time. By the time he got it closed, he already got soaked.

I'm not saying it can't be a good thing to have, only that you should think carefully abvout whether you really need it or not.

Earlier you mentioned a pee valve flooding which seemed odd. Then you changed it to say your buddy unzipped his drysuit in the water to take a piss. Of course that would flood. Then you end by seemingly going back to questioning the value of pee valves. This isn't making much sense.

Pee zips and pee valves are completely different things. A pee zip is designed to be used on the surface, primarily with back entry drysuits, to prevent having to take the suit off in colder weather. No reasonable person would unzip it below the surface.

Pee valves don't flood drysuits for three reasons. First, they're one way valves that don't let liquid in. Second, even if that one way valve failed, the tube is connecting to a condom catheter which seals around the penis with adhesive. Finally, even if the condom catheter came off, the hose is a narrow enough gauge that it's only going to produce a thin stream of water rather than a flooding event.

 

[DFM62]

I said he jumped in the water with his pee-zip open. Don't understand why you refuse to read that. My point about installing a pee valve or zip wasn't a discussion about which one is doing what, just that you introduce another potential leaking point.

 

[ginti]

Why this over kubi?

I do not think they are over Kubi. They have advantages and disadvantages, and you need to understand them to make a choice that fits your needs.

First of all, consider that you can buy dry-glove system separately. If this is your first dry-suit, I would personally skip the dry-glove system and buy some simple gloves like these ones:
Blue PVC - Bottleneck - Dry Gloves Solutions - Products - SI-TECH

And here's why I would do it:
(1) they are cheaper, so you can save money for something else;
(2) you do not know well what you need at this point, so it doesn't make sense to spend money on something that might be wrong;
(3) once you have your dry-suit, you can try different systems (just ask your friends to exchange your equipment when you go for easy dives), so that you can make your own idea and understand pros and cons of several solutions;
(4) once you buy a proper dry-glove system, you'll have some emergency gloves in case of leaks (it will save some of your dives).
[!] Keep in mind that these simple dry-gloves aren't very comfortable to wear! They're just a temporary solution in my view.

Then, once you know what you want, you can buy the best system for you.

The first thing to consider is the material. Plastic systems are cheaper, and although they are not going to create any issue when underwater, they are more likely to break outside the water; for instance, if you do not take care enough of your equipment when you pack it. I expect an aluminium system to last much longer, but they are more expensive. Overall, if you are a very organized person and you are very unlikely to damage your equipment (even by accident), you may want to evaluate a cheap plastic system. Otherwise, go for an aluminium system.

I met several people owning different kind of dry-glove systems: Antares, Rolock, Kubi, Ted; there are many other options out there. Ted and Kubi are in aluminium, Antares and Rolock in plastic. I am not sure if Ted is available in the US. In fact, it's a French company and their website is only available in French: Système de gants étanches – TED'S Technical and Easy Diving System

I did not hear good things about Antares, while I heard very good things about Kubi and Ted; neutral comments about Rolock. People I know tend to prefer Ted because it's easier to remove the gloves, but the difference with Kubi is anyway marginal.

I hope this can help you

EDIT: there are much other options out there than the one I described, and I do not have experience with them...

 

[ginti]

I said he jumped in the water with his pee-zip open. Don't understand why you refuse to read that. My point about installing a pee valve or zip wasn't a discussion about which one is doing what, just that you introduce another potential leaking point.

Kinda agree with this point; I think it makes sense to add a pee-valve when the dives start being consistently longer than one hour, with peaks of at least 1h45'/2h. Otherwise it doesn't make sense in my opinion.

 

[Rukkian]

Firstly, I guess you're getting a tri-lam as you're getting a seaskin?

1. metal vs ykk plastic zip - I have seen both, any personal experiences I should know?

Both are good - plastic is a little more flexible. Metal has a good track record, but plastic is much better than it was.​

2. Warm neck option useful?

No. Especially when you need the neck seal replaced - your drysuit repair person will thank you. Your hood goes over your seal anyways....​

3. I am thinking siflex seals for the kubi?

You mean silicone seals? Sure. I would definitely get user replaceable wrist seals, such as si-tech. Its a good investment for if you tear a seal at a dive site. User replaceable neck seals is 50/50. I've had many people love them, many hate them. The neck ring does add bulk, and I have seen the neck ring pop out, and it is harder to put back in place than the wrists. It is handy if you tear a neck seal. Personally, I have a neoprene neck seal and I find it comfortable, plus less likely to tear than a latex/silicone. I have silicon wrists, find them comfy, I take the extra time to don/doff them so they don't rip. Don't rush it ​

4. I am planning on ordering the kubi ring, and I know you also have to order the glove side separately. Since I am in the us, is there a better place to order just the glove side, instead of having it shipped, since I am assuming it is universal. I check dris, but they only seem to sell the whole thing (including the part to install in the suit.

Not really sure what you're after here... I would only go Kubi for dry gloves with glued in seals, otherwise there are better (in my opinion) options for suits with (for example) si-tech cuffs. Pull over gloves require no extra system, are cheap and reliable. There are a few glove systems, the waterproof Ultima is popular, and one or two of the si-tech ones work well. Stay away from the 4th element ones (notoriously difficult) and the Antares (IIRC).​

5. Any reason to move any of the valves? I see lots of options, but having never used a dry suit, I am not sure.

Just get standard placement on the upper arm (Dump) and chest (inflation).​

6. Sitech valves vs the standard apeks?

Apeks are expensive for no real benefit. Get sitech. Cheaper, just as good.​

7. I already have rock boots from deep6, are the compressed neoprene socks the best option?

I prefer boots on the suit. Unless you're cave diving or penetrating wrecks where you need a lot of ankle mobility, then sure, get socks and rock boots. Neoprene socks tend to get holes, need replacing or patching, and if you're diving cold water, tend to be colder as most people cinch down the laces on the rock boots and squash down the loft of the socks worn inside the suit.​

8. I know they say the extra protection (Bum, elbow, crutch, shoulder) is not really needed, wondering if it would be a good investment, or just a waste and add extra weight. Thinking the knee for sure, but not sure on the rest.

Knees, Yes. Shoulders, No. Crotch, yes if you have a BP/W. Elbow... what are you doing with your elbows?​

9. Pockets - Thinking the standard bellows on both sides, but open to opinions.

Yes. Pick one or two pockets.​

Finally - enjoy your new suit!

Thank you, that was helpful

For pockets I have seen some people put them on the front of their thighs for sidemount diving (instead of the sides).

That is a good thought. I am thinking I will go side mount at some point, but it may be awhile yet.

 

[lexvil]

Anything on the surface that will break an ultima or Rolock ring will cruse an aluminum ring, aluminum is a good material to keep bulk down but for a given cross section it’s more prone to be bent out of service tolerance.

 

[ginti]

Anything on the surface that will break an ultima or Rolock ring will cruse an aluminum ring, aluminum is a good material to keep bulk down but for a given cross section it’s more prone to be bent out of service tolerance.

Are you sure? I believe it depends on how the force is acting on the rings. If it is a radial force, sure, I agree with you. An axial force? Not quite... but, as I said, my experience is limited, so I may be wrong

Also, what about mechanical fatigue? I guess aluminium has a better behaviour than plastic in this regard even in the case of radial forces, but, again, I cannot say 100%

By the way, do you have in mind any reasons for using aluminium instead of plastic?