A question about the weights used for diving

[Sinbad the Diver]

Realized about a two weeks ago that I needed to invest (never thought about the fact that lead had become an investment) in weights. Then I read the posts about the prices and talked to the folks at my LDS and came to the conclusion that I'm, going to make my own (I have lead, melting pots, etc for casting bullets). I was talking to the wife yesterday about her making me some pouches and she asked a very provocative question that I couldn't answer.

Since Scuba tends to have a fairly environmentalist lean, why do we use lead weights? Most fish and game departments require steel shot when hunting waterfoul so you don't fill the water with lead.

Only thing I could think of is that the time spent in the water and the fact that the lead doesn't sit in the water permanently reduces the impact to a point where it's negligable. Any other explanations?

 

[Gary D.]

"LEAD SHOT" was banned because the bird’s fish and animals were ingesting it and getting poisoned. If there is something out there that is going to eat a weight belt I would rather be doing something else.

Once the state, local and federal government get wind that divers are using Lead Shot on or in Lead Shot restricted waters I’ll bet we see a change in some laws.

Gary D.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Please keep this to yourself, we don't need Haz-Mat following divers around! Dilution and lead is inert, so unless it is ingested by you or the game your hunting it is pretty safe and unless you want to strap on a RR Track or a gold brick don't go there!

 

[TSandM]

The simple answer is density and cost. Lead weights pack a bunch of negative buoyancy into a relatively small space; most of the things that are as dense or denser than lead are FAR more expensive.

Periodically, someone agonizes about lead fallout into the water from divers. There is undoubtedly a small amount (probably less with solid weights than with soft weights) but given the small number of divers and the huge volume of water they dive in, my guess is that it's imperceptible.

 

[Doc]

Lead is at $.82/lb. this morning. Obviously- transporting it and mooshing it into dive weights costs more. So does laying it on the floor at your LDS. Many LDS obtain these from local guys who crank them out in their garage.

The cheapest easy way to buy it is still "lead shot" by the bag at Gander Mountain in the hunting section. Yes- you're going to have to stich it into "bean bags" for a soft weight belt. (The higher the number, ie #9, the smaller the shot diameter, the more densely you can pack it in)

If you can lay your hands on used automotive wheel weights and buy a scuba lead weight mold (yes, they do exist), you can make your own just like the guy mentioned above in the garage. Seems like a rather limited return on investment, but for all you Luddites out there, it might make you all warm and fuzzy. I recall a time when divers would "burn down" car batteries just to get the silvery metal.

Why lead? Because Barracuda are rumored to be attracted to the glint of GOLD

The entire "lead shot in the food chain" was brewed up by anti-hunting lobbyists. Lead, placed in the water, if left undisturbed, oxidized very quickly and due to that newly formed layer, exude no lead in solution.

Why not happily and accept the use of steel shot for hunting? Most gun barrels wouldn't withstand it, it doesn't have the mass for a clean kill during impact, it is comparatively very expensive to manufacture. The lobbyists knew that.

Thus, do not expect anyone to complain about lead weights for diving. There is no money in it.

 

[Sinbad the Diver]

Thus, do not expect anyone to complain about lead weights for diving. There is no money in it.

In a lot of ways I will agree with that statement, but, I have come to expect people to use unsupported and often completely incorrect theories to create movements just because they can. My wife and I are very reasonable people and this question comes from a lack of specific knowledge of the subject (I've been hunting for years so I understand the tactics the anti-hunting lobby use, but since I have never hunted waterfowl I've never taken the time to understand the why's of the steel shot issue).

Now, imagine if the same question were asked by my wife of some person who felt it was their personal obligation to save the world, who rather than looking for information to understand the issue ran to someone at CNN and told them about this terrible ecological destruction that is ongoing (and oh by the way us ignorant divers are all floating around for days in shark infested waters and costing the taxpayers billions to rescue us ). Next thing you know some Congressman is holding hearings, dive charters are being regulated and required to weigh their weights every day when they leave and return and file weekly environmental impact reports to the EPA.

Wow, have I become one jaded SOB

Anyway, thanks for the info all. There was a part of me that knew that if this was a real threat it would have been regulated by now, but I figured this was a great place to find out the scoop.

BTW.... I have about 300 lb of lead currently in the form of .58cal mini-balls covered with grease and dirt. Couple trips through the wash tub and melting pots and into the ingot mold and I've got nice little rectangular weights that will slide perfectly into the weight pouches on my BC. Price keeps going up and I just may make a side business out of it

 

[don Francisco]

Lead per se isn't toxic, it's the various oxides of lead that are. But don't expect any good science or logic to be used if some legislator get a bug up his ***.

I'm not a fan of shot weights, since they are less environmentally friendly. The bags can tear or rot spilling the shot. Not a big deal in the scheme of things, but again who wants to be accused of poisoning the fishes. There is also a small health risk in that the shot weights have large surface area which oxidixes and with the ball to ball friction gets rubbed off as lead oxide dust. Neither is a true cause for concern, but lead blocks work equally well without these drawbacks.

If some idiot decides to ban lead weights we'll have to move onto brass or bronze, which cost more, would have to be heavier for the same ballast effect, and would at some point have some nut getting worked up about copper oxides.

After that..... it'll be back to the stone age.

 

[Gary D.]

If some idiot decides to ban lead weights we'll have to move onto brass or bronze, which cost more, would have to be heavier for the same ballast effect, and would at some point have some nut getting worked up about copper oxides.

After that..... it'll be back to the stone age.

Ummmm, wouldn,t that be larger? 20# of lead is the same as 20# of feathers except for volume.

Gary D.

 

[spectrum]

Since Scuba tends to have a fairly environmentalist lean, why do we use lead weights? Most fish and game departments require steel shot when hunting waterfoul so you don't fill the water with lead.

Not all weights are created equally.

Soft weights are the most likely to be a problem. The lead shot provides a massive amount of surface area that can chafe and shed. There are also the incidents where one gets ruptured in the water or on the beach or boat and no good will come from that. Try rinsing soft weight pouches in clean water sometime, they are messy. Soft weights also have the highest purchase price and shortest lifespan.

Solid lead weights have minimal surface area and do not chafe internally. They can still shed slightly and can discolor a wetsuit but it's minimal. Vinyl coated versions encapsulate the material to protect nature and your gear while providing a color opportunity.

Pete

 

[don Francisco]

Ummmm, wouldn,t that be larger? 20# of lead is the same as 20# of feathers except for volume.

Gary D.

Gary, that's the problem, any less dense material would end up being larger for the same weight, thereby displacing more water, and having a lower net negative bouyancy in the water. The higher the specific gravity, the more effective a material is as ballast.

To get 10#s of ballast using lead you need about 11#s of lead, to get the same 10#s of ballast using brass you'd need almost 12#s. If you really wanted to be efficient, you could use gold, iridium or spent uranium and only need about 10.5# to get 10#s of ballast.

But getting back to the real point, which is that we really don't want polititians looking at this, because once they do, facts won't matter.