A safety issue to think about

[Gary D.]

My project to get the plans and operating procedures for the new man made lakes is going forward at a good pace.

Yesterday the developer dropped off the plans to the larger of the two and I about messed my britches.

I knew its size, depth and some other things as I watched the construction. I also knew there was going to be a circulation system and at least one fountain.

What shocked me was that fountain is going to shoot 65’ into the air. That takes a massive pump. I was thinking it may be a 6” or 8” system but it turns out the thing is an 18” system with a huge volume. That is enough to suck a diver right out of their gear and into the pipe like the filling out of a Burrito.

There is still some more information I need to get but as long as the system is in operation we WILL NOT hit the water. It’s in the works that we and/or the fire departments will have access to the pump power. Once that is turned off it will either be locked off or a guard put on it, preferably both.

So you folks that have these fancy fountains or any pumps in any waterway need to do some research. Using a diver to stop the water flow is not the best method of choice.

Gary D.

 

[Boater Dan]

There is still some more information I need to get but as long as the system is in operation we WILL NOT hit the water. It’s in the works that we and/or the fire departments will have access to the pump power. Once that is turned off it will either be locked off or a guard put on it, preferably both.Gary D.

Gary:

Just remember that FD's carry universal keys to everything. I have yet to find something that we could not get into "somehow"!!!!

You did mention the key to post a guard while in operation so that someone doesn't do anything stupid. You cannot afford a Murphy moment with someone's life!

Dan

 

[Teamcasa]

Simple safety answer: Dual intakes 10' apart.

Dave

 

[Charlie99]

Simple safety answer: Dual intakes 10' apart.

Are you volunteering to test it?

The first thing that popped into my mind is the somewhat equalent method of capping the inlet with a humongous diffuser grill --- something like a 6' diameter sphere or polyhedron with lots of holes. I'll let Gary verify that it works, though.

 

[tc]

You just need to be really anal about following the lock out/tag out procedures.

 

[BladesRobinson]

Gary,

You bring up an excellent point and write about the value of pre-planning (actually reviewing the plans) and the importance of lock out / tag out.

On the flipside, "Teamcasa" has an excellent point about two intakes and I am surprised they are not required by code. Swimming pools and hot tubs have safety devices (pools with two intakes as "Teamcasa" suggests) and I am surprised that this 18" pump doesn't have "something" that would prevent a diver (or victim) from getting sucked into the pump.

If there isn't "something" to prevent PSDs and victims from being pulled into this pump, I believe this concern should be brought to the attention of the municipal planning authority. As "Teamcasa" mentions, pools have two intakes and an engineer should be able to determine the proper pipe diameter for two or more intakes.

Naturally, this engineering would NOT take the place of lock out /tag out but as you indicated in you post ... this is a potential hazard waiting for something bad to happen. Somebody (a commercial diver) is going to have to maintain this thing too. What about their safety?

Like you, I am just a little uncomfortable about this and because of your post I am going to investigate what is required by code in our community.

Thanks for the "heads up" and making us think outside of the typical "PSD box."

 

[tc]

Good points also Blades. We've been working on a dive site documentation book for some time that documents basic site info (Map, coordinates, elevation, contacts) along with any info on hazards and bottom conditions we've found or heard about for the sites. The more info that oes in the more benefits we see from the document. It's something all teams should think about to help with operational preplanning.

Tom

 

[ItsBruce]

Somewhere around 8 years ago I was counsel on a case that involved a diver who was sucked into the water intake for a pipeline in El Segundo, California. The lifeguard divers would not even enter the water until the thing had been shut down. They found the missing diver wedged into the pipe. All gear was reported to be in place and in working order. The only problem was that he breathed the tank down to just about zero. A horrible way to die. The point of my mentioning this is that IT CAN HAPPEN.

Gary, you could be real nice to the developer and mention that its failure to engineer this in a safer manner could expose it to huge civil liability (and possibly criminal liability). Suggest the developer send a few thousand dollars to talk to a good lawyer now, rather than tens of thousands of dollars later.

 

[Desert Pirate]

Even a good screen such as farmers use to keep trash out of their pumps would at least keep a body OUT of the pipe, you might stick to it like velcro but at least you wouldnt get caught in the impellers.

 

[Gary D.]

The pipe has a guard on it but the lake is only 25' deep and the pipe at around 10' which is my concern. It is well within reach of pranksters who just might remove or damage it for poops and giggles.

Also the power and controls are in an underground vault I haven’t seen yet. I know C-4 will take care of that. So it’s going to be a when in doubt we don’t go, period. We will be safe and not sorry.

The other lake is the one I think is going to be a problem. It’s real shallow and has a pump at each end.

I got another call tonight for two teens out on thin ice by the Post Falls Dam. I checked all over and couldn't find a thing. I don't know if that was a good or bad thing. Lots of open water they could have gone into but I don't think so.

Gary D.