Accepting criticisms: "You're gonna die!"

[Rechno]

@scubadiverdale
If you have so much common sense, you should have foreseen that the titles of your threads alone could let others assume, that you are some kind of sensation seeker. And by verbally attacking those, that offered critique you don´t do much to convince the posters that you are not just trolling. So maybe you should use your common sense to think about how your answers could or will be interpreted.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

This may be the best ever thread on ScubaBoard.

I concur. Although far from factual as I wasnt trying to rambo around like tursiops implied.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

@scubadiverdale
If you have so much common sense, you should have foreseen that the titles of your threads alone could let others assume, that you are some kind of sensation seeker. And by verbally attacking those, that offered critique you don´t do much to convince the posters that you are not just trolling. So maybe you should use your common sense to think about how your answers could or will be interpreted.

A title of a thread does not mean I should be attacked which is what happened. Several complained of his post yet they kept it up. Fine and dandy but it gave others preconceived notions of what was meant which was not true. Tursiops had been in my face before but whatever I do not care. What I care about is they left up a post that misconstrued the entire meaning of the thread and left me open to attacks. The mods knew what they were doing. They chose a decision that in my opinion was wrong because they deleted any post I put up trying to say I did not mean what tursiops stated. Thus damning me to tons of criticism to something I did not say or mean.

I was not able to even EXPLAIN myself. AT ALL. ALL POSTS DELETED.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

It would depend entirely on the context in which the help was attempted to be given. For example, the statement "You seem to want to treat scuba diving as some kind of competitive sport with elite divers and stories of bravery and amazing feats." could easily be the posters inaccurate projection, rather than actually reality. If that is actually false, it's quite easy to see how that would be offensive to someone.

Even if it's true "Get over it" isn't going to be helpful to anyone.

Thank you, finally one person that understands what actually happened. I mean I thought I was the only one that understood this person had no good will behind those words only to me what SEEMED a blatant attack and one that misleads the entire thread and peoples perceptions.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Would it? I've learned a lot from mal-applied criticisms. There's a tropism that I've heard from a lot of my white collar friends: Feedback is a bonus. They usually mutter this anytime they are being criticized and it's like a mantra to allow them to swallow some bitter pill. So what if the criticisms were way off point? I don't believe they were, but what's the harm in accepting them as is and trying to understand why they were given and if they apply? Something caused them to take time out of their day, expend effort and try to tell you something. Ratcheting up your defenses accomplish nothing here.

No one is perfect which means we can all improve. ​

Criticism is only offensive if you take it or make it that way. If your goal is to improve, then your attitude should be "bring it on!" or "Anything else?" Don't fight it: embrace it! Don't treat as some kind of attack or insult: it's a bonus!

Even weaponized criticisms which are not much more than an insult can be accepted without you taking offense. There might not be a thing you can do about it, but learning to accept these kinds of criticisms will make the good stuff all that more effective.

Weaponized criticisms can be accepted without taking offense? LMAO in what world? Mr. Rogers Neighborhood?

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Awesome. The very rare mix of perfectionism and humility... I only wish he were describing me!

When my son was in second grade he ran into his first bully on the playground. He came home in tears and after a lot of prying it was obvious why he was embarrassed. It wasn't that the kid was bigger, stronger or more abusive, but that he allowed himself to get upset over a silly comment. We had a long talk about attitudes and such and one thing made a huge impact on me. Yes, me. No one else is in charge of my happiness, my sorrow and my ability to accept criticism but me. Only me. Oh sure, unpleasant events can and will happen, but I am in charge of how it affects me and how I react. Yes, even the biggies like when my son died.

It begins with fully understanding why you're on ScubaBoard. Why are you reading? Why are you responding? Sure, we have our hopeless POV warriors that are here to prove that they alone are right. Meh. Most of us are here to learn. We've Googled something that sent us here and we've fallen in love with the community. So, if we're here to learn why do some of us act offended when someone gives us a learning point in the form of a criticism? Yes, there are some concepts where I am unmoving like there is no need for a CESA in Scuba instruction and that the goal of every OW class is to produce perfectly flat and neutrally buoyant divers. But, for the most part, I participate to learn. I express my views hoping that any erroneous views will be challenged and that I'll learn something. A perfect example of this was when @H2Andy suggested that since it was so heavy that we should use water instead of lead for ballast. The following discussion was epic and Andy ate a good bit of crow. But he took it all good naturedly without a single bit of bitterness or self pity. Mind you, Andy is brilliant and he simply had a senior moment in his youth. He had that very rare mix of perfectionism and humility.

So the next time you feel you're being "attacked", take a moment, take a breath and see if there's something in there that you can learn. Look for the bonus and stop being overwhelmed with concern for how others think of you.


It's true that the best parents are the ones who've never had a child. They're quick to point out how you've failed and sometimes they're right. It's fun when they finally join you in the trenches and figure out it's not as easy as they thought.

Not so fast, I can take criticism but when criticism is given me when I didnt say what you are trying to tell me I said then I get pissed off. And when you delete EVERY SINGLE REPLY on a thread that I try to say thats not what I said it gets offensive. and then when a blowhard potentially chimes in on a subject I never said and says thats what i did say well then theres a problem. Next time try to let me explain what I mean before putting false words in my mouth.

 

[Jay]

You seem to want to treat scuba diving as some kind of competitive sport with elite divers and stories of bravery and amazing feats. Get over it. That is an attitude that has killed others and will kill you.

Thats a complete lie and id tell you the same to your face.

You should really go back and read your OPs. Especially the sentences involving the words elite, superman.

 

[Neilwood]

@ScubadriverDale when you post threads with titles such as "Which agency should I join if I wish to become an Elite Diver?" with a first post of

Hello all, newer board member here and just wondering after coming across a couple of old threads which groups are Elite and which are standard?

From what I can tell Naui, SSI, and PADI agencies are the certification agencies for us newbies. And Padi is the most rudimentary of those at least ive read that alot on these forums. I was certified PADI. My father was a NAUI instructor over 50 years ago for the YMCA. Even though my father was an instructor I only started diving about a year and a half ago but I digress.

I have started reading about GUE, DIR, WKPP, Hogarthian method, etc. For my benefit and so I dont step on any toes which of the higher tier agencies are the best to learn from? Ive heard there is competition among these upper crust agencies. Which agencies among the DIR GUE Hogarthian communities are in direct competition with each other?

Could someone just give me a quick rundown of all this so I can read these forums as a better informed individual and eventually become an ELITE diver?

thanks in advance,

and "Your Superman stories about unbelievable skill, bravery, or luck" with a first post of

Im new so I have no amazing or near miss stories yet. But I know many here have stories they know of people they know or personal experiences that would frighten or and amaze people.

Who do you know that you would consider a scuba superman or woman? And they can be industry icons and stories of what they have done youve read about. Let us new divers know about some of these stories if possible.

What brought this on for me? Reading about many deep dive record holders and seeing many have passed. Many here have lived through these events and I am in awe of some of the accomplishments of deep water divers and deep cave divers.

But what about some of us new people that have seen some spectacular saves, near misses survived by skill?

If you have a Superman hero or story tell it here. And it COULD be yourself...

they tend to suggest that you are looking for the extremes (which may be the opposite to what you actually meant). It is VERY hard on the internet to understand the thought behind the text.

Posts with mentions of being ELITE and SUPERMAN tend to rub people up the wrong way - that wording portrays someone who wants to be above everyone else. The best divers are anything but elitist or superman - they are generally highly risk averse and very methodical (which are not terms that someone usually mentions in the same sentence as elite or superman).

If the first thread above was " What agency will make me a better diver?", that would read differently. Likewise with the second - if it read "Lucky escapes and how to avoid them", it would have a different tone.

 

[The Chairman]

A title of a thread does not mean I should be attacked which is what happened.

No. This is a false narrative. You were not attacked. You were not called any names. You were not threatened with physical, verbal or emotional abuse. An opinion contrary to yours is not an attack. You disagreed with a possible outcome of your attitude and couched that as an attack. Once so couched, you held on to that fallacious belief like a dog on a bone and then used that bone to attack anyone who disagreed with you.

They chose a decision that in my opinion was wrong because they deleted any post I put up trying to say I did not mean what tursiops stated.

Another false narrative to defend your seeming inability to take criticisms. You can attack the idea, but not the poster. You don't seem to understand the difference.

Weaponized criticisms can be accepted without taking offense?

I do it all the time. Moreover, there were no weaponized criticisms leveled at you. In contrast to the spirit of this thread, you've gone out of your way to find reasons to not accept valid criticisms.

Not so fast, I can take criticism

Please show us anywhere on this forum where you have done so. It's always everyone else taking you out of context, misrepresenting you, or (gasp) attacking you. So far when anyone disagrees with you, you've become defensive and combative even. It's like you're the poster boy for not listening to others.

Next time try to let me explain what I mean before putting false words in my mouth.

Next time try being nice.

For the record, this thread is NOT about you. Sure, the criticisms leveled at you were used as a preface for the premise of this thread, but this was not started to attack you or even to discuss your seeming inability to accept criticisms. It was intended as an open discussion on how to accept and benefit from all types of criticisms. You've started threads about how unfairly you feel you've been treated and that resides in Site Support. Please confine further discussion about how you've been mistreated to that thread. It's off topic and taking away from those who want to learn how to take criticisms.

Back to topic =>
All feedback, including criticisms and even "attacks", can be beneficial but only if you let them. You simply won't improve your game, whether it's posting on an internet forum or diving, without it. The mark of an elite diver is their ability to learn from their mistakes and that includes listening to all the criticisms about those mistakes. So how do open your mind and heart to accept criticisms?

• Don't perceive or treat criticisms as a personal attack
  • Take a deep breath
  • Remember that all feedback is a bonus
  • People are taking time to try and help you
• Don't respond right away!
  • Allow your defense reflex to defuse itself.
  • If you write a negative response, sit on it for 24 hours.
    • Then delete it!
• Think through the criticism(s)
  • Assume you're the problem
  • Figure out why they gave those criticisms
  • Are you getting the same criticism from multiple sources?
    • The more often you get that criticism the more likely you need to change something
  • What do you need to change to avoid additional criticisms?
• Make a plan to change!
  • Ask for help
  • This may open you up to additional criticisms
  • Set some goals
  • ASK for feedback.
  • Thank people for their feedback.
• Fighting criticism is rarely effective and makes you look defensive and egotistical.
  • DON'T DO IT!
  • Correct or not, always thank your critics for their input.
  • Never, ever attack a critic with insults.
  • Always thank them for their input or simply ignore them
• Don't perceive or treat criticisms as a personal attack
  • Yes, this bears repeating.
  • Feedback is a bonus!
  • The truth can set you free, but it might hurt a bit in the process.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

@ScubadriverDale when you post threads with titles such as "Which agency should I join if I wish to become an Elite Diver?" with a first post of



and "Your Superman stories about unbelievable skill, bravery, or luck" with a first post of

they tend to suggest that you are looking for the extremes (which may be the opposite to what you actually meant). It is VERY hard on the internet to understand the thought behind the text.

Posts with mentions of being ELITE and SUPERMAN tend to rub people up the wrong way - that wording portrays someone who wants to be above everyone else. The best divers are anything but elitist or superman - they are generally highly risk averse and very methodical (which are not terms that someone usually mentions in the same sentence as elite or superman).

If the first thread above was " What agency will make me a better diver?", that would read differently. Likewise with the second - if it read "Lucky escapes and how to avoid them", it would have a different tone.

Was not my intent I guess I figured people would pick up n the playfulness of the title. and many did reply that they knew the titles were in fun even though I wish to learn more. But SOME people want to take things in a worst possible way so they may talk down to you. Saying things they would NEVER say in person.