"Advanced Divers Only..."

[Scuba-74]

That’s a dangerous assumption. Cold water divers can, and do, dive too deep and for too long (exceeding no stop times), because of the myth that if they can dive in cold waters they could dive anywhere.

Those who “dive too deep and for too long” do it because they can’t watch their computers for depth and time, not because those dives are beyond their ability, which is the point. And no checkout dive will help identify divers who would then do it on a real deep dive.

 

[wgw04024]

That’s a dangerous assumption. Cold water divers can, and do, dive too deep and for too long (exceeding no stop times), because of the myth that if they can dive in cold waters they could dive anywhere.

That's what they tell cold water divers in OW.

 

[Edward3c]

That's what they tell cold water divers in OW.

I don’t.
I warn new divers that the light penetration can fool them into thinking they’re at 15m when they are really 30m+. Second the warm water means they don’t use as much air as they would expect, consequently doing longer dives.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Rubbish: if the DM is in the water with you, they are evaluating your ability to dive.

Yes, IF the DM is in the water with the divers, and IF they have the ability to adjust itineraries to suit divers' abilities. I wasn't limiting my remark to that. Think Bonaire, where nobody is watching you.

But I do think Cozumel and maybe some other places are different than most. Liveaboards and dive resorts in places that are expensive to reach haven't tended to attract divers who would be in over their head or, for that matter, visit sites that would be beyond the ability of the average diver. You sign up for a fairly specific itinerary, and they do their best to visit those sites. Coz attracts hordes of divers, and the better dive ops have the ability to adjust where their customers go.

I do not recall having been with dive ops other than in Cozumel that grouped divers by ability after having judged their abilities in the water, but some clearly exist, as @boulderjohn mentioned. They may be increasingly common in Asia, as divers from the rising middle class get into the sport and turn places that have long attracted mostly advanced divers from the West into Cozumels of the Pacific.

Australia is unique animal--very safety conscious. My very first dives after OW certification were in Cairns and Port Douglas. Big-name dive op put me on a boat with other obviously inexperienced divers and dropped us in shallow water over very beautiful bits of reef (this was a long time ago). They didn't evaluate us in the water--they didn't need to--but I would imagine that a liveaboard with the ability to group divers by ability would do just that.

 

[drrich2]

Australia is unique animal--very safety conscious.

I got that vibe from past discussions on Australia diving (e.g.: required dive medical evaluations?), and I'm curious why that is, and how pervasive the mindset is in Australian society. I suppose I was influenced by watching the movie Crocodile Dundee decades ago, where I somehow got the impression Australians were an independent, self-reliant sort; the 'Big Brother' vibe I get reading about their dive op. practices contradict that.

 

[boulderjohn]

I got that vibe from past discussions on Australia diving (e.g.: required dive medical evaluations?), and I'm curious why that is, and how pervasive the mindset is in Australian society. I suppose I was influenced by watching the movie Crocodile Dundee decades ago, where I somehow got the impression Australians were an independent, self-reliant sort; the 'Big Brother' vibe I get reading about their dive op. practices contradict that.

Australia's rules on diving are very strict, but not always obeyed.

For example, before I went on my last diving trip there about 5 years ago, I was told over and over again that a medical form with a doctor's signature was absolutely required for all diving. We were going to be using two different operators, so we made sure we had extra copies. Our first diving was on a huge dive boat with tons of customers. When we checked in with our assigned DM and handed her the medical forms, she did not know what to do with them. She had to ask someone else. No one else had a medical form. We just had to sign a sentence saying we had no medical issues. Our next dive was on a liveaboard, and it was the same thing. We just had to sign a statement saying we were fit to dive.

We had to have snorkels with us on all dives. I brought a flexible one I could carry in a pocket.

The rules for checking in and out of the water at the beginning and end of dives are very strict.

The case of Gabe and Tina Watson brought out an interesting local law. I don't understand it fully, but as I get it, when Gabe incompetently tried to rescue his wife and failed, that made him liable under a law requiring competent assistance. That made him guilty of manslaughter, and he spent a year in jail. A lot of people misunderstood that to mean that he pleaded guilty to intending to kill her, but he actually pleaded guilty to incompetence.

 

[dmaziuk]

I got that vibe from past discussions on Australia diving (e.g.: required dive medical evaluations?), and I'm curious why that is, and how pervasive the mindset is in Australian society. I suppose I was influenced by watching the movie Crocodile Dundee decades ago, where I somehow got the impression Australians were an independent, self-reliant sort; the 'Big Brother' vibe I get reading about their dive op. practices contradict that.

Commercial (or work) vs. personal activities. If it's you going out on your own boat, "she'll be right, mate". If you're running a commercial op, it's not really all that different from e.g. Florida except in Florida it's the insurance company, rather than government, lawyers writing the rules.

 

[dmaziuk]

I do not recall having been with dive ops other than in Cozumel that grouped divers by ability after having judged their abilities in the water, but some clearly exist, as @boulderjohn mentioned.

Subway Water Sports on Roatan try -- "try" because there are other factors in play, like having to have enough divers/boat to pay for the gas and so on. However they are a large-er op and many/most of their customers stay on the island for a week+ so they have time to evaluate divers and boats to sort them to. I can see how a one-boat walk-in op would just not be able to do this sort of thing.

PS. I'm not sure how many people go boat diving on Bonaire. We did a full week once, but judging from the people on the boat with us we're an exception: there were new faces every day.

 

[scubadada]

Subway Water Sports on Roatan try -- "try" because there are other factors in play, like having to have enough divers/boat to pay for the gas and so on. However they are a large-er op and many/most of their customers stay on the island for a week+ so they have time to evaluate divers and boats to sort them to. I can see how a one-boat walk-in op would just not be able to do this sort of thing.

My wife and I had a good experience with Subway. our boat was uncrowded with reasonable divers

 

[beester]

First of all, there was no current on those dives. And I specifically inquired in advance if those sites were suitable for a JOW.

Secondly, yes, I’m of the opinion that anyone who is comfortable in a cold water low visibility dives will do just fine on shallow Caribbean dives.

Finally, I think it should be left to a discretion of the parent who knows their kid ability and has an idea of what type of dives they are signing up with vs. what the kid did before.

Nope! I respectfully disagree on both counts.

I've seen quite a number of divers who were a bit "gun ho" get in trouble in tropical water or Meditteranean. These were guys used to cold water (in winter 3-4°C / 37°F), low vis and even current (tidal waters, shore entries). How do I know, because I was one of them (starting diving in the North Sea). This is 20 years ago and I've progressed a lot as a diver, but even now when I'm diving with a dive OP, in a spot I've never been, I'll pay attention and have a healthy respect for their opinion, yes even super easy 20m depth recreational dives. Because THEY are the experts in their water, or at least until proven different.

I understand that you can judge your sons ability as a parent (I'm a dad too). JHowever as an example if my son wants to take up mountain climbing, I'll not rate a climb and overrule a guide that he can go, because I'm the dad and should now best. I can't because I'm not an expert climber. However if his mom does (she is an expert climber), they better listen. Vice versa for diving... I of course don't know what kind of diver you are, but 100-200 dives doesn't make you qualified to judge diving behavior, in my book that 100-200 dives just means you yourself just took off your training wheels. But of course your mileage may vary. In the end what's the rush... if an OP wants to do a dive to see how he behaves underwater, it's good for you too, because you'll know the sites they will take you after the checkdive will be appropriate for your diving level.

Cheers