Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program vs Just taking specialty classes you want?

[Kharon]

And SDI does not have "advanced diver". Nor does SDI have "advanced open water".

What SDI does have is "Advanced Adventure Diver" and "Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program". Saying "advanced diver" or "advanced open water" is useless in this context because there is no way to determine which SDI certification you're talking about.

I call bushwah!!! This is a quote directly from the TDI/SDI website - "After the previous requirements are met and verified by an instructor, the instructor issues the SDI Advanced Open Water Diver certification by submitting the SDI Diver Registration form to SDI Headquarters or the appropriate Regional Office, or registering the students online through member’s area of the SDI website."

Here's the link: https://www.tdisdi.com/sdi/get-certified/Advanced-Diver-Development-Program/

 

[Omisson]

My point was that cards represent a minimal level of skills and nothing more. each generations cards represent something different (less and less). My original OWD ward represented todays what todays master card represents. OWD was an all encompassing diver card in the recreational arena. I would say that an OWD card is equivilant to any AOW or master card. I want to say in MY early days there was OWD and dive master equivlant and instructor. And if one could present the skill sets of the OWD card to show they meet or exceed can you just skip the formal AOW class and dives. I don=t know if thta would be an instructor decision or an agency decision to waiver.

The way it works is simple.

The agency sets the standards. The instructor follows them.

In the case of equivalent certifications the AGENCY issuing the certification says what the other certifications from the other agency is equivalent when meeting or not meeting a co or prerequisite requirement.

I am unaware of SDI permitting ANY ow certification that can be used as the Solo Diver prerequisite Advanced Diver Certification.

But since this somehow seems confusing - I've sent an email to Dennis Pulley at ITI to ask for clarification from the training crossover folks....

 

[stuartv]

I call bushwah!!! This is a quote directly from the TDI/SDI website - "After the previous requirements are met and verified by an instructor, the instructor issues the SDI Advanced Open Water Diver certification by submitting the SDI Diver Registration form to SDI Headquarters or the appropriate Regional Office, or registering the students online through member’s area of the SDI website."

Here's the link: https://www.tdisdi.com/sdi/get-certified/Advanced-Diver-Development-Program/

Yeah, that's what I was talking about earlier. Their own documentation is messed up. The title of the article on that page is:

SDI Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program

And the description right under the title says (in part):

By earning the SDI Advanced Scuba Diver certification you will have...

I believe they maybe used to have a certification called "Advanced Open Water", but they got rid of that name and now have Advanced Adventure Diver and Advanced Scuba Diver, but they've done a poor job of updating all their documentation to reflect the changes.

If you look here it shows their whole hierarchy of certifications:

https://www.tdisdi.com/sdi/get-certified/

OW Scuba Diver is the top of the chain (the first step). Nowhere does it mention "Advanced Open Water" or "Advanced OW". It does list "Advanced Diver" (which links to the Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program page) and also "Advanced Adventure Diver".

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

OW Scuba Diver is the top of the chain (the first step). Nowhere does it mention "Advanced Open Water" or "Advanced OW". It does list "Advanced Diver" (which links to the Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program page) and also "Advanced Adventure Diver".

And that OW goes right over to Solo... very interesting...

 

[tursiops]

And that OW goes right over to Solo... very interesting...

Im not sure why you think your interpretation of a web-page graphic supercedes the details embedded in it or those from the Standards and Procedures guides!
the specialties in the webpage graphic have specific prereqs, not shown in the graphic, but if you click on each one it tells you what those prereqs are.

Solo has Advanced as a prereq. Both in the grraphic (if you click on Solo) and in the Standards.

 

[stuartv]

Im not sure why you think your interpretation of a web-page graphic supercedes the details embedded in it or those from the Standards and Procedures guides!
the specialties in the webpage graphic have specific prereqs, not shown in the graphic, but if you click on each one it tells you what those prereqs are.

Solo has Advanced as a prereq. Both in the grraphic (if you click on Solo) and in the Standards.

Well, maybe because the Solo page specifically says:

The SDI Solo Diver certification counts towards a single specialty rating to complete the SDI Advanced Diver Development program

Thus, it seems obvious that Solo Diver does not have a prerequisite of the SDI Advanced Scuba Diver. Which only leaves the SDI Advanced Adventure Diver certification as what they could possibly mean when it says the prerequisite is "Advanced Diver".

And the Advanced Adventure Diver cert doesn't require any full specialties. Just an overview of 5 different specialties, which can be completed in as little as 2 dives after getting OW certification. Computer Nitrox and Equipment Specialist would count towards AAD. Advanced Buoyancy Control can be done in a pool, so that doesn't count as a dive. Deep and Underwater Nav would be 1 dive each. And you'd have the "Advanced" certification that Solo requires - if the documentation on the SDI website is correct, of course. You may think AAD requires an overview of 5 diving specialties, but the web page specifically lists Computer Nitrox as one of the specialties you can choose...

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Im not sure why you think your interpretation of a web-page graphic supercedes the details embedded in it or those from the Standards and Procedures guides!
the specialties in the webpage graphic have specific prereqs, not shown in the graphic, but if you click on each one it tells you what those prereqs are.
Solo has Advanced as a prereq. Both in the grraphic (if you click on Solo) and in the Standards.

Either way we may find out the official ruling - but it is interesting to me that it could be interpreted in a different manner - since I did not give myself a solo certification...

Per Omission
"I am unaware of SDI permitting ANY ow certification that can be used as the Solo Diver prerequisite Advanced Diver Certification.
But since this somehow seems confusing - I've sent an email to Dennis Pulley at ITI to ask for clarification from the training crossover folks...."

But if your point is that any instructor can bypass any rule in any agency - I still find that interesting...

 

[tursiops]

And the Advanced Adventure Diver cert doesn't require any full specialties. Just an overview of 5 different specialties, which can be completed in as little as 2 dives after getting OW certification. Computer Nitrox and Equipment Specialist would count towards AAD. Advanced Buoyancy Control can be done in a pool, so that doesn't count as a dive.

Not quite. Adv Buoyancy Control *can * be done in a pool, but what is it that makes that not a dive?
Computer Nitrox is the *only* non-diving specialty that can be counted....the standard states: "Overhead environments and non-diving specialties are not allowed, and do not count toward the 3 chosen specialties." Computer Nitrox is given as the only exception. You may be confused with the SDI Advanced Diver Development Program which does allow a non-diving specialty (in addition to Computer Nitrox).

The SDI Advanced Adventure Diver cert aligns very nicely with the PADI AOW...it is almost identical, except the SDI cert is for a Specialty, whereas the PADI cert is for a rating (in between OW and Rescue). There is no equivalent PADI cert for the SDI Advanced Diver cert; also SDI allows Rescue right out of OW if you have 40 logged OW dives. Things don't get back into sync until the Master Scuba Diver certs from the two orgs....both require Rescue Diver and 50 dives, but PADI requires 5 specialties whereas SDI only requires 4.

 

[stuartv]

Not quite. Adv Buoyancy Control *can * be done in a pool, but what is it that makes that not a dive?

I said that because I asked at my LDS if the pool visit for the ABC cert counted as a dive that I would log in my book - i.e. 1 of the 25 I need for ASDDP. They told me no, because it was in Confined Water.

Computer Nitrox is the *only* non-diving specialty that can be counted....the standard states: "Overhead environments and non-diving specialties are not allowed, and do not count toward the 3 chosen specialties." Computer Nitrox is given as the only exception. You may be confused with the SDI Advanced Diver Development Program which does allow a non-diving specialty (in addition to Computer Nitrox).

You obviously have more info than I have. I was looking at the web page for Advanced Adventure Diver:

https://www.tdisdi.com/sdi/get-certified/advanced-adventure-diver/

It does not mention the requirement for non-diving specialties.

OTOH, the web page for the Advanced Scuba Diver Development Program DOES say that only 1 non-dive specialty counts (in addition to allowing Nitrox).

Anyway, the difference between 2 or 4 dives doesn't really matter (to me - regarding this point). The point is/was that you can get AAD with VERY few dives after getting your OW cert. And that plus 92 or 94 more dives of any type is, apparently, all the qualification and training that you need to take the Solo Diver course and get that C card.

So, 4 OW cert dives, 1 deep dive, 1 u/w nav dive, 1 drift dive, and 1 marine ecosystem dive, plus 92 more dives in the Caribbean at 30 feet, and you are qualified to take the Solo Diver course. Given that and the OP's info, I don't see what the big deal is about an instructor reviewing his history and log and approving him for the Solo Diver course. Maybe I would understand that better if I had been through instructor training, though...

The SDI Advanced Adventure Diver cert aligns very nicely with the PADI AOW...it is almost identical, except the SDI cert is for a Specialty, whereas the PADI cert is for a rating (in between OW and Rescue). There is no equivalent PADI cert for the SDI Advanced Diver cert; also SDI allows Rescue right out of OW if you have 40 logged OW dives. Things don't get back into sync until the Master Scuba Diver certs from the two orgs....both require Rescue Diver and 50 dives, but PADI requires 5 specialties whereas SDI only requires 4.

Right. I already have Nitrox and Adv Buoyancy. So, in theory, I could take the Deep Diver specialty any time now. Keep diving until I've got 40 logged. Then take Rescue Diver. Keep diving until I hit 50 logged, and then get my Master Diver card, without ever getting an Advanced Adventure or Advanced Scuba card or taking the Underwater Nav specialty (or any others), correct? Not that I would or would advocate anyone else to do this. I'm just trying to understand the rules. Honestly, this seems like kind of a hole in the SDI program that they should address so that a person with a Master C card has had to undergo a bit more specialty training than that.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The Master Diver (in what ever agency) is a program designed to encourage folks to take more courses and to dive more. Many folks like to have a goal to work toward and the program provides one. The actual Master Diver card by itself does not do anything but let you know you have reached that goal. I picked up the SDI MD for those reasons. It was the actual diving and lessons along the way that were important. The DM PADI/NAUI/SDI or Divecon (SSI) are professional as noted. I have SDI, PADI, and SSI specialties. I found the DM a very different sort of beast in terms of emphasis from the specialties. For DM I read both the PADI and SDI material, but got just the PADI card.

This is actually not true. With SEI and NAUI the Master Diver rating is an actual stand alone course. It has it's own requirements and is not a recognition of having taken other classes. I teach the SEI Master Diver cert and one of the texts I use is the NAUI Master Diver Student manual. The course is designed to develop instructor level knowledge skills, and dive leadership ability without the teaching component.
As for the SDI Solo cert I read it to require an advanced level cert plus the 100 dives. For me even that is not going to cut it if the AOW consisted of the required Deep and Nav dive and then 3 other fluff dives like boat, Fish ID, or some such nonsense. I treat the Solo cert like a tech course for my students wishing to enter it with me. Their basic skills and knowledge should be above average, I want them to have rescue first or at least a rescue skills workshop like I offer to those who don't want to do the full rescue class, and I need to see an attitude towards safety I feel is necessary; otherwise we are not even going to start.