Advice, hose routing for mirrored left and right second stages

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@Squid88 the necklaces are not really practical for taking up the weight and strain of the second stage because you have to adjust them each time you put the mouthpiece in and take it out. It's now a two handed operation and isn't really great.

In my experience, few technical divers in the US are buying newer Scubapro, Apeks, or Hollis regulators due to their dealer agreements forbidding the sale of parts kits. I don't believe Deep6 has a lefty reg out, but @cerich could have snug it by me. I doubt it though because he's been opinionated on that since the first switchback came out from HOG and didn't sell particularly well.

To my knowledge, every one of Poseidons regs have always been ambidextrous which offers much better flexibility over a dedicated lefty/righty regulator, but again, very few use them like that because there are very few of us that actually dive them.

to the videos the @leadduck posted. The fluffy bunny tunnel is certainly outside of the bounds of sidemount being a dedicated no-mount rig and with no-mount rigs, that was likely a comfort thing to just get back to that tunnel. There is definitely no thought about being able to share air in that type of gear configuration because no-mount is quite unique.

the Bogaerts video is how I route my regulators now *only the second stages, the rest is a bit different* and how I used to route them when I had my XTX50's. Now. The issue with this specific routing with a lefty regulator as mentioned above is that in a single file air sharing scenario, you have an artificial shortening of the hose due to triangles. It's not huge, less than half a foot, but it's still there and when the 7' is marginal for most divers to begin with, 6" can make a lot of difference. The other is it now is crossing and can more easily get hooked on things as well as increase torque on the mouthpiece for the diver up front causing jaw fatigue.
Steve is running what I would consider a solo sidemount, or potentially OW sidemount regulator configuration where there is no potential to share air in the overhead. What that means is the left and right tanks are mirror images of each other *hence the lefty reg on a short hose*. I have no problem with this in OW because the swivels/elbows allow you to make a face:face ascent or if you are using a ball swivel, swim side:side relatively comfortably. I would not use this setup with long hoses with the intention of single file air sharing and the horse has been sufficiently beaten on that.
Disclaimer is that my current hose routing is exactly that with long hoses, but I am using a Poseidon Jetstream which is not bound by the limitations of a true "lefty" regulator. When I donate, instead of rotating the regulator along the vertical axis like you have to in a normal second stage in order to keep the exhalation diaphragm on the bottom, I rotate mine along the hose axis so it goes from being a "lefty" reg when I'm using it to a "righty" reg when someone else is using it.


The best bolt snap mounting options I've found were stolen from Brent Hemphill and someone else. I use one from Brett that has been modified to my Jetstreams and looks like this.
13737583_10157200384355134_472133256581307476_o.jpg

and when pulled over
13692905_10157200384615134_625994932958250164_o.jpg

When pulled over a normal second stage, it looks like this
13724999_10157200384345134_1550437072870170141_o.jpg

I only use those bolt snaps when I'm stowing a regulator to a stage tank or when I'm at the surface and gearing up. When in the water, I use a loop of bungee similar to that used to retain the inflator in backmount and slip the showerhead into that to allow rapid donation. It works very well on the Jetstream but not so much on anything else. @victorzamora gives me relentless sh!t about some of the weird things that I do to make my regulators work for me, but such is life.

What I would recommend for others though is to do this. It's a simple piece of bungee on a double ender, but you can clip the double ender to your d-ring and easily remove a "normal" second stage from it and have it completely free.
13708211_10157200384320134_8862324670449542541_o.jpg



Circa 2010, oh how we have evolved!
45999_10150251814795134_8348021_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Fun Fact: The Dacor Pacer XL was the regulator that was used to give Darth Vader his breathing sound effects.
 

nothing to do with Edd or the panhandle.... lots more to do with Chris when he started HOG, but Dive Rite before that. I am actually very infrequently in the panhandle for cave diving, much more often in the Peacock area but it holds off the NC coast in my experience as well. This is just what I see, and your specific area may be different. Edited the post to be a bit less overarching, but my opinion still stands.

Also fwiw, Edd has been pushing Dive Rite XT's for quite a while as well and doesn't really push the Deep6 regs nearly as much as you may believe
 
doesn't really push the Deep6 regs nearly as much as you may believe

Thought I was going to choke on one the last time I was up there it was getting shoved in my face so much.
 
@rddvet Why such a negative opinion?
 
@Squid88 the necklaces are not really practical for taking up the weight and strain of the second stage because you have to adjust them each time you put the mouthpiece in and take it out. It's now a two handed operation and isn't really great.

In my experience, few technical divers in the US are buying newer Scubapro, Apeks, or Hollis regulators due to their dealer agreements forbidding the sale of parts kits. I don't believe Deep6 has a lefty reg out, but @cerich could have snug it by me. I doubt it though because he's been opinionated on that since the first switchback came out from HOG and didn't sell particularly well.

To my knowledge, every one of Poseidons regs have always been ambidextrous which offers much better flexibility over a dedicated lefty/righty regulator, but again, very few use them like that because there are very few of us that actually dive them.

to the videos the @leadduck posted. The fluffy bunny tunnel is certainly outside of the bounds of sidemount being a dedicated no-mount rig and with no-mount rigs, that was likely a comfort thing to just get back to that tunnel. There is definitely no thought about being able to share air in that type of gear configuration because no-mount is quite unique.

the Bogaerts video is how I route my regulators now *only the second stages, the rest is a bit different* and how I used to route them when I had my XTX50's. Now. The issue with this specific routing with a lefty regulator as mentioned above is that in a single file air sharing scenario, you have an artificial shortening of the hose due to triangles. It's not huge, less than half a foot, but it's still there and when the 7' is marginal for most divers to begin with, 6" can make a lot of difference. The other is it now is crossing and can more easily get hooked on things as well as increase torque on the mouthpiece for the diver up front causing jaw fatigue.
Steve is running what I would consider a solo sidemount, or potentially OW sidemount regulator configuration where there is no potential to share air in the overhead. What that means is the left and right tanks are mirror images of each other *hence the lefty reg on a short hose*. I have no problem with this in OW because the swivels/elbows allow you to make a face:face ascent or if you are using a ball swivel, swim side:side relatively comfortably. I would not use this setup with long hoses with the intention of single file air sharing and the horse has been sufficiently beaten on that.
Disclaimer is that my current hose routing is exactly that with long hoses, but I am using a Poseidon Jetstream which is not bound by the limitations of a true "lefty" regulator. When I donate, instead of rotating the regulator along the vertical axis like you have to in a normal second stage in order to keep the exhalation diaphragm on the bottom, I rotate mine along the hose axis so it goes from being a "lefty" reg when I'm using it to a "righty" reg when someone else is using it.


The best bolt snap mounting options I've found were stolen from Brent Hemphill and someone else. I use one from Brett that has been modified to my Jetstreams and looks like this.
View attachment 426570
and when pulled over
View attachment 426571
When pulled over a normal second stage, it looks like this
View attachment 426572
I only use those bolt snaps when I'm stowing a regulator to a stage tank or when I'm at the surface and gearing up. When in the water, I use a loop of bungee similar to that used to retain the inflator in backmount and slip the showerhead into that to allow rapid donation. It works very well on the Jetstream but not so much on anything else. @victorzamora gives me relentless sh!t about some of the weird things that I do to make my regulators work for me, but such is life.

What I would recommend for others though is to do this. It's a simple piece of bungee on a double ender, but you can clip the double ender to your d-ring and easily remove a "normal" second stage from it and have it completely free.
View attachment 426573


Circa 2010, oh how we have evolved!
View attachment 426574

I've seen that method of connecting regs before. So happens I was trying to find it again. In particular I was interested in the one with double ended snap lock.

Do you like that method? Do you use about a 3" double end or longer. I have a 4" it seemed too long.

Also thanks for all the insight it may seem like I'm dense but I really like to explore my options before dismissing something. Many times people have achieved things with great results after being told it won't work, it's the wrong way etc. sometimes you just need that secret ingredient or method to turn the dumb idea into a new standard.

Cheers
 
@Squid88 do what works for you. If you have a 4" and don't like it, try 3". I don't really focus on the "normal" second stages because I only really use them for decompression and oxygen regulators so whatever is on there is whatever worked at the time, didn't really pay attention to it.
I use the Hemphill method for mine because they are set up with a different priority than what I would have on a primary regulator system.

I like both of these MUCH better than the standard tie a bolt snap to the hose fitting that has been the norm for decades
 
The reasoning for Z system is founded in a rationale of scalability and consistency, which one might agree with or not.

The fact it gained zero traction outside of UTD... and is unquestionably the most criticized or mocked sidemount 'solution' in the global sidemount community tends to imply that it, indeed, is not universally scalable or consistent to any diver not bound by a very specific agency dogma.

That, in turn, suggests that it's only a solution to a dogma-imposed problem... not an actual sidemount problem that anyone faces.
 

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