Air hog etiquette.

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Are you under the impression that a DM swimming along with a group following behind him or her will see, react, and reach a diver who loses buoyancy control in time to prevent an uncontrolled ascent? That would be borderline impossible.

I've seen it in a rescue class in March, where a student using a drysuit for the first time in awhile lost it. I was observing (not a student), saw the student going up and signalled the instructor (who was closer than I) who intervened immediately stopping the uncontrolled ascent.

Last December, while a customer on a DM led tour I saw a diver start to ascend up into a moving boat and the DM intervened. (I would have, but had told myself "nah, that can't be the dive boat since no idiot captain would drive directly over his divers. It's just some large ominous shadow caused by clouds or something.)

But I agree generally: I've missed divers who lost it and ascended all the way to the surface.....
 
I went to Fiji early in my diving career, and I did a series of dives with a large group of instructors and dive shop owners from New Zealand. One of the shop owners was obese, and he was an air hog. He managed to get in full dives through an interesting technique. He would swim up behind another diver, reach around and very skillfully take the alternate air. He would breathe off of it for a few minutes, completely undetected, then return it. Then he would wander off in search of his next donor. He was so good at it that he was rarely caught. They all knew he did it, and they joked about it on the surface, but they usually did not know when he was actually doing it.

Another reason to use primary donate and a necklaced secondary. No way to pull shenanigans on someone with that configuration.

People have mentioned using larger tanks, which is fine if they are available. At dive resorts, I occasionally would find a 100 CUF tank, but usually nothing more than that.

On the recent boat dives I have asked for larger air tanks. Here are the outcomes. I'm leaving the operator names out to protect the guilty.
* Operator #1: AL100s short-filled to 3000 PSI, so I actually got 90 cf. No extra charge
* Operator #2: AL80s overfilled to 3300 PSI, so I actually got 84 cf. No extra charge
* Operator #3: HP100s with 32% because they didn't have any with air. At the time I was not nitrox certified. Upcharge of around $10 a cylinder
* Operator #4: I was nitrox certified before this dive and asked for 100 cf of Nitrox. Got a short-filled AL100 at 3100 PSI, around 93 cf. Upcharge for nitrox but nothing extra for the AL100

I've only been on one boat where AL100s would actually fit in the tank holders.

My SAC is typically around 0.60 and I find I need fully 100 cf to avoid being "that guy" on deeper dives. I dive HP120s at home. I have, at considerable expense, shipped two of my HP120s ahead for a trip next week, because the op I'm using doesn't really offer larger cylinders in a useful way (you can request it but they won't guarantee it, no nitrox, AL100s, probably short filled, etc).

Another option is a stage bottle. This is basically a pony bottle but it's not used for redundancy, it's part of the gas planning (although it does provide some degree of redundancy in case of a failure early in the dive).

I do that while shore diving but it is hard to pull off in practice on a boat.

A question unrelated to etiquette but related to air hogs.

On a busy diving schedule (say, a 7-10-day liveaboard, 3-4 dives per day), will an air hog increase his/her chances of getting DCS if he/she dives with a larger tank or often steals air from other divers, like the Kiwi diver mentioned here earlier? The time spent underwater is the same but the volume of air (and nitrogen) consumed is not. The NDC limits are based on an average diver; will high rate of air consumption multiplied by the same underwater time make a diver an outlier? Is the higher air consumption rate pushing the diver to nitrogen saturation faster, or is it only time that matters?

As indicated upthread, there isn't any evidence to suggest that higher air consumption contributes to DCS.

Well said but air hogs are not necesary big. It would be interesting to see the profile of a typical air hog, though.

I weigh 240 pounds and while I am perhaps 20 pounds overweight, I'm mostly just a big guy who goes to the gym regularly. I believe my air consumption has much to do with muscle mass.

The 120s are great. Even if they're short filled, I get a nice long dive and have a truly sufficient amount of reserve air at the end of the dive.
 
After planning for group dive (charter type) 1 hrs long, being an air hog you find out after 30 min that it would be wise to start surfacing (700 psi). Your choices are to signal the divemaster and abort everyone’s dive early or switching to the divemaster octo and share +10 more minutes of air (which you are not 100% sure you like). A third one might be surfacing alone or with your buddy.

In most cases this shouldn't be a surprise for you or anyone else, unless either you're new at this or were stressed out by the current or whatever at the beginning of the dive. So it is something that should be planned. Dive your plan.

Would I plan a dive where I was going to share air with a DM for 10 minutes? Maybe, if there was a shortage of better alternatives, and I was doing it in the middle of the dive and not at the end.

After some dives, considering your SAC, nitrogen, etc you find out your max dive time is 45 minutes. The dive group is planning a 55 minutes dive. What to do? Abort the dive at your 45 min? prolong to 55 min and make a deco stop? (the divemaster is aware of your time limit)

My official answer is that you insist that the dive be planned within your limits, or skip it. In practice, though, that can be hard to do. Some DMs won't listen and will push clients right to the edge of safe limits.

Real world, it depends on your skills and the conditions and the gear you have. At typical recreational depths, on air, overstaying your NDL by 10 minutes is going to replace your three minute safety stop with 7 or 8 minutes of deco. Either way you'll have to split up from the group. I don't do deco dives but even if I had the training I'd be reluctant to take on a deco obligation without some sort of redundant air. How far away is the nearest chamber? How good is your insurance? Surfacing safely while the group continues may be workable, or not, depending on the situation. If not, I'd sit out the dive.
 
Are you under the impression that a DM swimming along with a group following behind him or her will see, react, and reach a diver who loses buoyancy control in time to prevent an uncontrolled ascent? That would be borderline impossible.
And yet, I have seen it. More than once.
 
My SAC is typically around 0.60 and I find I need fully 100 cf to avoid being "that guy" on deeper dives.

Nah. "That Guy" is the diver who, on returning to the boat, makes a big deal of telling everyone what tank pressure he surfaced with.



I dive HP120s at home. I have, at considerable expense, shipped two of my HP120s ahead for a trip next week, because the op I'm using doesn't really offer larger cylinders in a useful way (you can request it but they won't guarantee it, no nitrox, AL100s, probably short filled, etc).

I [use a stage bottle] while shore diving but it is hard to pull off in practice on a boat.

Too late at this point, since you already shipped two HP 120s, but even if the dive op you are using can't get AL40s, shipping two of them (and an extra reg) would be a lot cheaper... Never had a problem with that on a dive boat.
 
@2airishuman Of course there is no evidence. My question was about the theory, what the prediction might be.
 
My SAC is typically around 0.60 and I find I need fully 100 cf to avoid being "that guy" on deeper dives. I dive HP120s at home. I have, at considerable expense, shipped two of my HP120s ahead for a trip next week, because the op I'm using doesn't really offer larger cylinders in a useful way (you can request it but they won't guarantee it, no nitrox, AL100s, probably short filled, etc).

You might consider sidemount training. Its easy to do even on a recreational boat, and you can carry 160 cf of gas on a dive without having to ship any cylinders. Keep your most full cylinder for dive #2 and replace the other one with a full one.
 
A question unrelated to etiquette but related to air hogs.

On a busy diving schedule (say, a 7-10-day liveaboard, 3-4 dives per day), will an air hog increase his/her chances of getting DCS if he/she dives with a larger tank or often steals air from other divers, like the Kiwi diver mentioned here earlier? The time spent underwater is the same but the volume of air (and nitrogen) consumed is not. The NDC limits are based on an average diver; will high rate of air consumption multiplied by the same underwater time make a diver an outlier? Is the higher air consumption rate pushing the diver to nitrogen saturation faster, or is it only time that matters?

@2airishuman Of course there is no evidence. My question was about the theory, what the prediction might be.

We have had a number of threads on this over the years. The experts responding to the question include Dr. Michael Powell (the former Doctor Deco on ScubaBoard and scientist who helped create the DSAT tables) and Dr. Simon Mitchell. Increased rate of gas consumption in itself does not affect the rate of nitrogen on-gassing. Increased perfusion (blood flow) due to heavy exercise can increase nitrogen on-gassing, and it can also lead to heavy breathing. In that case, increased air consumption can be associated with increased nitrogen on-gassing if it is caused by exertion, but it is the exertion and resulting increased blood flow that is causing it, not the breathing. If a person just breathes through gas faster, it does not affect on-gasing and thus DCS.
 
You might consider sidemount training. Its easy to do even on a recreational boat, and you can carry 160 cf of gas on a dive without having to ship any cylinders. Keep your most full cylinder for dive #2 and replace the other one with a full one.

I can do this today by diving independent backmounted doubles, which my gear supports. It is my perception that operators typically won't let you dive two tanks on a single-tank dive. I'm going to start another thread on that.
 
I can do this today by diving independent backmounted doubles, which my gear supports. It is my perception that operators typically won't let you dive two tanks on a single-tank dive. I'm going to start another thread on that.

I'm not a sidemount diver, but the point is that sidemounted AL80s are no different from regular AL80s in terms of stowing and handling them on most resort-type dive boats that are set up for single tank divers with benches lined with tank slots, etc..

On the other hand, the crew may have a problem with stowing a set of banded doubles, regardless of whether they are independent or manifolded. It's a physical space thing...

As far as the operator not allowing you to dive two tanks, I guess all they really care about is keeping the group together and not having someone off doing deco while everyone else on the boat is waiting to go to the second dive site. But of course, every captain may have different preferences and protocols, so hard to make any universal statements.
 

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