Annual.. er.. quint-annual

[cryhumour]

Aloha. I'm not too sure this is the right spot for this post because this wonderful site has about 8 billion catagries! If there is a more appropriate place then by all means boot me toward it.

I am looking into repairing my regs and would like some feedback on a few items:

Where do you get the annuals and other parts?

Where can I get service manuals or even just the parts blow-up?

How about the acid to clean the parts... where do I get it?

Thanks!

Dano

 

[DA Aquamaster]

It is pretty common to use a 3% to 4% solution of HCL for an acid bath. This can be made by diluting muratic acid from the lawn and garden dept of the local hardware store. Muratic acid is about 30% HCl so be careful and wear gloves and saftey goggles. You also want to pour the acid into the water, not vice versa when mixing.

You can also find dry chemicals designed to be use with ultrasonic cleaners through Trident. They work well, but at home I normally just do a 3.5% HCL acid bath. It smells clean and is non fuming in that concentration. 3-5 minutes is enough of a dip to remove just about anything and it should be followed up with a 5 min dip in a baking soda/water solution to neutralise any acid and then the parts should be rinsed in hot water to remove any soda and to promote drying.

This site has some schematics. manuals, etc:

http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/regs.html

Parts can be a real problem unless you have a sympathetic and supportive dealer. E-bay is an option as some annual service kits show up there from time to time, often from dive shops that have closed or dropped a particular company.

 

[cryhumour]

Thank you so much DA Aquamaster! Those are exactly what I was looking for! Do you have any more on making the right mix of acid? How do you get the proportions right? If you could e-mail the recipe that would be cool. Thanks again dude.

Dano

 

[redacted]

A great place to start is: www.airspeedpress.com

I use 50% vinegar/water for an acid bath and then baking soda/water for a neutralizer.

As far as manuals, ask here, there, and everywhere and they will pop up. What are you looking for.

Parts are the long pole. A very few mfgrs provide access to parts. Others pop up on ebay fairly regularly. It is my understanding that dealer agreement do not prevent LDSs selling parts. So the best solution is to learn what you are doing so you can talk to the shop and then find one that is happy to make you a customer by selling some parts. And then don't abuse it.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Do you have any more on making the right mix of acid? How do you get the proportions right? If you could e-mail the recipe that would be cool.

For home use on my own regs I use three plain old Wal-mart variety 1 qt Rubbermaid bowls. They have enough volume to hold and cover the parts of one reg. They are also stackable so I have one with numerous drain holes drilled in the bottom and covered with a plastic mesh screen from the local hobby (the kind used for one of those cross stitch sort of yarn thingies some women do). I can place the parts in this one and then move them from acid bath to soda bath to rinse without having to touch or pour anything. Works slick.

And they have tight sealimg covers so you can keep the acid mixture between uses. It's a good idea to replace the soda bath each day. I normally use 2 table spoons of baking soda dissolved in 36 oz of hot water for the soda bath.

The muratic acid I have locally is 31% so 4 oz muratic acid = 1.24 oz of HCL which is when divided by the 36 ounces (the final volume of the solution) gives a 3.44% solution.

Since you already have 4 oz of muratic acid, you would need 32 oz of water to get 36 oz of solution. As it is safer to add the acid to the water, add 32 oz to the bowl and then add the 4 oz of muratic acid.

 

[kidspot]

Hey Dano, Off the subject but seeing you are from Kihei, I wanted to make sure you knew about the Hawaii Ohana on ScubaBoard - You're welcome to come join us over there on your Surface Intervals. I'm in Lahaina myself and newly certified but there are a few of us from Maui that hang out around here.


Tim

 

[cdennyb]

It is pretty common to use a 3% to 4% solution of HCL for an acid bath. This can be made by diluting muratic acid from the lawn and garden dept of the local hardware store. Muratic acid is about 30% HCl so be careful and wear gloves and saftey goggles...

:11: Whoa there sir, I have many, many manuals for regulator rebuilds, both first and second stages and 7 out of 14 boldly state NOT to use muratic acid at all. It will attack the chrome and cause microscopic pitting of the internal parts. (Result: Future junk parts and maybe an accident or two if you're not lucky.) They might smell clean but to put it bluntly, I'd NEVER get that acid near my rigs or regulators, I only use the ultrasonic cleaner and a 30% to 50% solution for the first wash of "Simple Green". The vinegar is ok but I prefer not to use it either. The simple stuff will work quite nicely and it's not a toxic substance. The rinse water (Deionized pure water) is heated to 170 degrees F and the ultrasonic cleaner is again used here too. I do one wash, unless the solution comes back looking pretty dingy and then I make it two, followed by two hot rinses and one cool (70-80 degree) rinse, then a blow off using Grade E air from a clean tank I use all the time. (the reason I use a cool rinse is because a hot or warm part may actually condense moisture on it as it cools.)
Use non-powdered latex gloves, don't touch or 'sneeze' on any clean parts and cover the cooling dry parts prior to assembly to insure no "fallout" is on them which would contaminate them. This might sound like a cleaning procedure for O2 clean stuff but you can't be too clean, can you?

I have manuals for many of the mainstream regs and if you would like a copy of them I can e-mail or copy to CD (The files (all of them) are quit large!)
If anyone would like schematics and/or manuals PM me and let me know but the best place so far is the southern divers web site:
http://www.deepsouthdivers.org/regs.html
It's pretty cool but you need a fast connection to really download the stuff quick, (unfortunately I don't :-( )
Use them at your own risk of course, That's what I was told when I acquired them. As for parts & specialized tools required, ask me about that too, I have a list of suppliers.
later
db

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I've heard the "don't use HCL" concern before. On the other hand I have also seen it recommended by various sources including Pete Wolfinger, owner of Peterbuilt tools and former repair guru at Scubapro. He has about 30 years experience as a reg tech and I give his opinion a great deal of weight.

And then there is my own personal experience. In 10 years of using mild HCL solutions to clean regs I have never had a problem with chrome being removed (other than chrome that was already badly corroded) or pitting on either metal or plastic parts. This includes 10 years of cleaning my own regs - some of them annually for the last 10 years. My question to those who feel an acid bath will harm parts is when exactly is this supposed to occur? Apparently the problem develops at least 10 years down the line. As long as the concentration is mild (3%-4%), the soak times reasonable (5 minutes) and an equally long soda bath is used to neutralize any remaining acid I don't see the problem.

I follow the soda bath up with a hot water rinse and, for 02 clean regs, a scrub in simple green and another hot water rinse.

 

[cdennyb]

I've heard the "don't use HCL" concern before. On the other hand I have also seen it recommended by various sources including Pete Wolfinger, owner of Peterbuilt tools and former repair guru at Scubapro. He has about 30 years experience as a reg tech and I give his opinion a great deal of weight...
.

Well, without starting a war of the words here, I must admit, that if someone was rebuilding regs 30 years ago, they without doubt still use parts that old as well. Experience is not the only teacher here. The people that make these pieces of equipment should be listened to since they have the understanding of what these parts are made from and whether or not a certain chemical will harm them.
Since technology has advanced with leaps & bounds in the past 5 years alone...the materials used today are far different than materials used just 10 years ago. Perhaps the old style equipt could tolerate the acid bath treatment but since over 60% of the manufacturers of life support equipt. today suggest, (NO...demand!) that no acid is used to clean their regs, etc. I must concede that I don't have the necessary research and testing data to contradict their opinion (and the fact they've spent millions to come to that conclusion) of how to clean their parts beats out any here-say or experience from my past.
If the materials they use today are the same as 20-30 years ago...no problem I guess.
But I follow the recommendation(s) of the modern mfgs. and the use of the vinegar bath is acceptable still today. The use of kristo-lube is as well, since it is far superior in our world of scuba and compressed air, nitrox, trimix to the use of silicon based lubes that were acceptable as well, 20-30 years ago in general.
I guess we agree to disagree. Carry on.
db