Anybody know how this thing works????

[Diveskool]

Possibly because scuba gear is a relatively tiny market, so antitrust or protectionist rules can be sidestepped. Unlike VW.... coff coff k

Hi Khrissi. Thanks for your response. I agree with your interpretation but sidestepping the law usually gets people in trouble. I would not suggest a free for all, we do have the MOT for motor vehicles to ensure cars are safe and I would recommend equipment servicing be carried out by qualified personnel.

 

[Diveskool]

Hi Sam. It's an honour to communicate with someone with your experience. I hope you receive this as cave diving without lines seems easy compared to navigating in here at the moment, no doubt I will get the hang of it. You have expanded my knowledge of diving today, Thank you!

Some of you might enjoy reading about the history of regulator repair and Sam IV ( in bold) regulator repair course when he was a strapping young boy of 12 who rode his bike to US Divers for the course


In the beginning there was one company marketing diving equipment in US- Rene Sports, located in the back of a men's clothing store in Los Angels, California. In 1952 the company expanded and the name was changed US Divers, now Aqua lung.

Original advertisements and "word of mouth" indicated the Aqua lung was good for over 1000 dives with out adjustment or major maintenance, which was the first example of diving's false news.

Some of the components of the Aqua Lung were French war surplus - either WW1 or WW11, it was never really determined exactly what War. The components that gave most grief was the hoses and the diaphragm,
The hoses were prone to leak so were replaced with longer US WW11 gas mask hoses. The diaphragm,? A different story. It might have been a component from the Gas-O-gen, war surplus or just poor 1940s manufacturing

Never the less It seemed we always were breathing wet air (Oh! the Horror - wet air) either from leaking hoses or a microscopic hole or holes in the diaphragm. On occasion the diaphragm. would rupture, generally at the most inopportune time with little or no warning which gave the diver two options either remain on the bottom and attempt to breathe water or head for the California sunshine and fresh air- most all were successful in the later activity.

It was called "Swallowing the diaphragm."

It happened to me twice, The last time was the most memorable. I was a body length back in a cave breathing hard and deep after California Lobsters, Suddenly a more than normal amount of water with inhalation. The next breath as pure SoCal Salt water, I got on my on my horse, backed out and did a blow and go to the surface to the then smog free California Air..

Around that same time a number of things occurred
US Divers, under Rene & crew discovered some holes in the original US patent for the Aqua Lung which allowed US Divers to improve the breed with the DA model an produce it in the US by B&B,

My neighbor and friend Rory Page invented and marketed the Hope-Page non return valve

LA Co UW instruction Certification course was created in 1954 (PADI was 1969

US Divers hired a repairman, possibly the world's first Aqua Lung (aka SCUBA) full time repairman the late Bill Millman- "Lung diving" was beginning to emerge as a company

Only a few repair courses were offered by the manufactures for a number of years, then only to handful of local LA Co UW instructors as a sponsored recertification seminar.

Over 40 years ago Lt Cmdr. Leslie "Tommy" Thompson USN Ret (LA Co UW Instructor ) was hired as the PR of US Divers. Tommy was a diver's diver he had many first - most notable was his lock out under the ice cap in 1947.

Tommy recognized the need for a repair course for US divers dealers, military personnel and industry leaders so he created and established a free week long 40 hour equipment repair course presented at US Divers in Santa Ana California.

I was one of the first to enroll and repeated the course for a number years in a row. It was a very complete course, beginning with monkey see -monkey do and repetition, repetition until the break down and reassemble could have probably been performed blindfolded like some of us did with our side arms in the service of our county.

About 40 years ago my son was 12 years old. Sam IV had been raised in a pioneer diving family surrounded by divers and diving all his life. He had attended summer BSA camp at Catalina Island, had some time on his hands and needed a challenge. I called the then repair course instructor Bryan Miller (a dear friend but not related) and asked if it was possible to enroll 12 years old Sam IV in the repair course? The response was positive so Sam IV packed a lunch jumped on his bike and peddled through the then mild Orange county traffic to US divers and the equipment repair course.

He returned home the first day excited has I had hoped he would. Over dinner he chatted about his new found companions in the course by first name ( a family no no - adult were to be addressed as Mr. or Miss, but these were his adult classmates and he was a young adult) He was amazed that he had more dives and had been diving longer than any others in the class- but this was 40 years ago and diving was just beginning to migrate past the SoCal borders.

Every day he returned home with a memento from US Divers, a tee shirt, a sweat shirt, fins, mask and snorkel and finally a youth size wet suit. Apparently the word had got out among the company officials that he was the youngest ever to take the US Divers repair course and they wanted to reward him.

Several weeks after the completion of the course he received a telephone call from US Divers There was a fellow who would like to meet him - could he drop by tomorrow ?

As 12 year old adventuresome boys did and I assume still do he took off with out a word to his mother and I to US Divers.

Waiting at US Divers was Jacques Cousteau who met him, congratulated him on being the youngest ever to complete the company sponsored repair course him and gave him an autographed copy of his latest book. Sam IV was some what impressed .with his new friend Zeek ( JY Cousteau)

And that was the way it was -- a long time ago from US recreational diving's birth place which has now spread to the hinterlands of the US and the world. (Even Ireland )

Sam IV ? He competed his Eagle scout a few years later, became a NAUI (Life) and PADI instructor, ER & Hyperbaric doctor and is now a director of the local regional hospital.

 

[Diveskool]

Lets not overcomplicate this, the answer is that it is a part of their business model. Many businesses take measures to protect their value streams. For some that means owning the distribution and retail stores as well as manufacturing (think Sleep Number Beds or Ann Taylor). Some manufacturers protect their value chain by aggressive agreements on price setting (think Bose headsets, who are sold at many stores but the price is always the same, or Apple products). Some, like most scuba manufacturers follow an old fashioned alignment of only selling through authorized local retailers who do more than just sell products, they maintain them and train on them as well. One has to look no further than Head who bought SSI and Mares for the continued attempt to fuse training with sales, and they still follow the LDS model that combines maintenance.

It is not unreasonable for a manufacturer to protect their value chain, especially when there is not a lot of real innovation going on; and lets get real here, regulators have not changed all that much.

What remains to be seen is how much longer this model can compete. The internet and online sales have cracked many other industries that used this model. We see a lot of newer scuba manufacturers (like Deep6) who are selling direct to consumers. But the combination of product sales with initial training is a powerful one, what you see your instructor wear forms a powerful bias in the head of the new diver; that is the real power of the LDS model (and manufacturers know it, hence they offer keyman pricing for pros to get them in their gear as advertising)

In the end it is not a conspiracy, or anything illegal, it is a business model decision.

Hi loosenit2. Makes perfect sense when you put it like that, if I was a businessman I might do anything to protect and enhance my bottom line. I certainly prefer this business model to the last one where the competition simply went missing, problem solved. I think you will find however that forcing the end user who, after purchasing the product, now owns it and has the right to choose who does the service or for that matter whether it is serviced at all. TBH I would not want to dive with a buddy that never has equipment serviced, I have seen the state of some life support equipment and it is a credit to the manufacturer that it continued to operate sufficiently to keep the diver alive. The right to choose however is not a business model, it's democracy.

 

[tursiops]

The right to choose however is not a business model, it's democracy.

You clearly have a vendetta, but perhaps misguided. It is easy enough to purchase regulators that are self-service or service-by-anyone, such as yourself. If you don't like the other guys' business models, don't buy their stuff. I don't like Arugula, but I don't complain about Arugula growers/distributors/sellers; I just don't buy it.

 

[Compressor]

At the end of the day, one has to service the equipment. Some equipment can just be serviced by user (eg: changing fin strap that is showing wear) and some of our gear needs servicing by someone who can do a good job. I don't see anyone forcing a buyer to service their stuff. Some regulator manufacturer states that end user can service the regulator while others don't make parts available.

I agree with previous posts that it's part of the business model.

 

[Diveskool]

You clearly have a vendetta, but perhaps misguided. It is easy enough to purchase regulators that are self-service or service-by-anyone, such as yourself. If you don't like the other guys' business models, don't buy their stuff. I don't like Arugula, but I don't complain about Arugula growers/distributors/sellers; I just don't buy it.

I wish you could have read my original post, I am new on this site and it would have helped you understand my intention as it contains details about me. No vendetta here, just a desire to be able to use my qualifications. I only joined the site yesterday and find it is a nightmare to manage so I have asked for the account to be closed. If the dive community is happy with this stalemate I am not going to argue so I guess my job is done here. Thanks for your help guys and bye!

 

[tursiops]

Well I have a question about the protectionist practices of most regulator manufacturers and I would like to hear opinions. I know this is a subject discussed at length by other members however as a member of ASSET, the Association of Scuba Service Engineers and Technicians. This means I completed a comprehensive training program that qualified me to carry out the work I have mentioned and more e.g. bottle testing etc. I hope you will take an interest and help me understand why the manufacturers are permitted to impose these restrictions, please have a look at my thread and give me your honest opinions.

I wish you could have read my original post, I am new on this site and it would have helped you understand my intention as it contains details about me. No vendetta here, just a desire to be able to use my qualifications. I only joined the site yesterday and find it is a nightmare to manage so I have asked for the account to be closed. If the dive community is happy with this stalemate I am not going to argue so I guess my job is done here. Thanks for your help guys and bye!

I did read your original post. You ask for opinions. You got them. You don't like them, because most of them don't agree with you. Sorry about that. By calling it a "stalemate" your position is clear.

 

[Diveskool]

I did read your original post. You ask for opinions. You got them. You don't like them, because most of them don't agree with you. Sorry about that. By calling it a "stalemate" your position is clear.

This was not my original post.

 

[Steelyeyes]

I don't like arugula either.

 

[Diveskool]

I don't like arugula either.

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