AOW before Tech?

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Compared to average OW divers I would say my experience is extremely varied

The biggest chunk of diving is in springs
But I have dove in

Standard shallow ocean
SoCal with mild currents
Mutiple quarries
Silty lakes
Swift shallow river

Yeah, go take a cavern course. As I said, it's a recreational safety course and not a cave diving course, but it will introduce you to the skills and concepts that are needed for cave diving plus give you an opportunity to go do some cool stuff. My suggestion would be to do it with an NSS-CDS instructor, I say this because the bar to become an NSS-CDS cavern instructor is higher than other agencies (heck, one agency allows you to self-certify yourself as a cavern instructor after completing 25 cave dives). There are a couple of people in the panhandle of Florida that are NSS-CDS instructors and if you head east to High Springs you'll find a bunch of us.

Here's the NSS-CDS instructor list: Instructor Listing - NSS CDS

Keep in mind, the path to becoming a full cave diver SHOULD NEVER BE QUICK. Anyone saying you can do it simply in 8 days (or less) is blowing smoke up your butt. Generally speaking, expect the process to take between six months and a year with a lot of diving between courses.

I will also step out on a limb and say a GUE fundamentals course may be a decent next step too. Fundamentals has NOTHING to do with cave diving, but reinforces buoyancy, trim, rescue scenarios and most importantly, teamwork. GUE may be a little dogmatic, and they're not for everyone, but you will learn a lot in a Fundies course if you keep your ears and mind open.

Best of luck to you on your journey!
 
There is a lot of advice in this thread bit i have a question. What has your 60 dives consisted of? Do you have any deep diving experience?
 
There is a lot of advice in this thread bit i have a question. What has your 60 dives consisted of? Do you have any deep diving experience?


How deep?

My record is around 112 feet although that wasn’t intentional I was getting a buddies attention to go up

Probably around 10 dives to 80-95

2-3 dives around 100
 
I would usually advise doing Aow first. However in your case i would find a cave instructor now and work on a progression plan like others have said. Best of luck to you.
 
Get your AOW card - preferably from a cave trained instructor. The course may not really give you anything skillwise. But as another thread here emphasized, it's hard to get on boats and build your experience without an AOW card. Get yourself into an intro to tech or a GUE fundies class shortly thereafter. Cavern "may" impart the same skills but I am not a fan of taking people into the overhead as part of learning how to frog kick and all the other hard and soft skills that can be taught in intro to tech or fundies in OW.
 
Your current OW certification allows you to dive up to 18 m depth. AOW certification will extend this limit to 30 m. AOW certification does not add much skills, you just try 5 different dives. Cave diving is very serious and requires good buoyonce, trim, propulsion skills. I would recommend you to do TDI Sidemount course and then try TDI Cavern course. If you see that you are comfortable with your skills, then you could progress with further trainings.
 
I don't see how AOW is going to assist the OP, in any way. The threads criticizing AOW far outnumber those that praise its merits. Personally, I think it will be a waste of time, for what the OP seeks to accomplish.

You're better off spending your money in training that first ameliorate your fundamental skills. That means achieving good trim, good buoyancy and good propulsion techniques. If you plan on going through GUE, then it's Fundamentals with a Technical rating. I believe TDI has Intro To Tech. Perhaps someone who has cross trained across multiple agencies can chime on equivalent courses. Agencies require a certain number of dives because it takes time to develop certains skills and a specific mindset. After developing those, move on to introductory course for Cave diving.

The majority of the advice you (OP) have received cautions patience as the Zero to Hero mentality will get you hurt or worse in this arena of diving.
 
My curent goal is full cave and deco and advanced nitrox emphasis on cave that is what i want most

My far out goal is advanced trimix in caves

Some of people already pointed out your age and they were really right :) You can not even imagine what level of skills is required to reach Advanced trimix level.... in caves. Let me give you my example.

After I completed PADI Master Scuba Diver I enrolled into TDI Sidemount, Advanced nitrox and Deco procedures courses. These courses were on absolutely different level, even are not comparable with any recreational courses. After 9 long and exhausting days I got certified. However, I am going to wait and do maybe few hundred dives more before I proceed to Extended range / Trimix courses as you can enroll to these courses when you have a perfect buoyancy skills. When you go deeper mistakes are not forgiven. When you have perfect buoyancy and able to do various tasks (e.g. solve free flowing regulator with removed mask, deploy DSMB, etc.) without changing buoyancy then you are ready for next level. I already know that I will not got beyond Extended range / Trimix level as I perceive too risky to go below 60 m depth.

Regarding caves: my tech instructor is one the most experienced cave instructors in the world and he told me stories about people who get easily narced at 30 m depth or getting panic attacked when going into caves. Mind is playing its tricks when it is completely dark and cold. Now you mention about your ultimate goal to become certified in Advanced trimix in CAVES....Complete at first some of beginning tech courses and then you will understand how extremely hard to go to such level. For most of people this level is simply unobtainable.
 
When I did my open water I already knew I wanted to do deep dives on trimix. The 'forbidden' part of diving was interesting.
The advice I got: Go diving, get experience.
On the question how much experience? I only get the answer, do a lot of diving. But how much? You are now open water, so not ready for technical diving. I bought a normal bcd and single tank as was adviced. Did aow, then divemaster and after 10 months I had 200 dives and said: this is enough to do the full trimixcourse according to standards and bought a backplate, wing and twinset and signed up for adv. nitrox.
Again from others: you are not experienced enough. But how much experience is needed?
1 april (not a joke) I was adv. nitrox certified, 19 april full cave (390 dives), 21 october full trimix and did my first 100m dive (dive 521). 2 years after getting open water certified.
If I got the right advice during my open water, I would never bought a normal bcd and single tank. It was a waste of money.
When I bought the backplate and wing I already had tried to swim a frogkick, that is possible with a bcd also.
With the RIGHT buddies you can progress faster. I did not have that and had to watch youtube movies and try myself. Happely I am more or less an autodidact. But with the right buddies and instructors or mentors it would be more easy.

For the TS: I would do aow first, but with an techinstructor. Why? Tell him about your plans. He can make for example the ppb dive a dive with finkicks also. And then you have AOW and no discussions anymore on boats that you are a 'muppetdiver' (beginner). Try to do all dives from now on in backplate/wing and longhose. Maybe that instructor can be your mentor also or can introduce you to other divers.

Then take a look if cavern is an option or maybe do intro to cave directly, best is if you did the aow with a cave instructor or the aow instructor knows the cave scene well enough to help you further. Here no caverns, so cavern is not possible. People go here directly to intro to cave or full cave (depending on their experience and other certs). I don't do intro to cave in single tank, it is officially allowed, but no, do it in a twinset.
If you want to dive in Florida, you can do cavern first, there are caverns. Same with Mexico.
For full cave in Europe an adv. nitrox cert would be nice because it is almost impossible to do long dives without some deco. Florida is deeper than Mexico also.
Rescue is not required, but some divers find it a usefull course. This all depends on the instructor in my eyes. If you do it with a techinstructor you will learn more than with a typical hurry up resort instructor.

And I don't know what kind of dives you have done till now. But from now on, do different environments, and try to do some dives where your are the leader, you do the navigation, depth, direction, etc. And in EVERY dive you can practise. even if you dive with another inexperienced diver. If you look at a fish, try to be horizontal without moving, or try to do the backkick. You don't need to do a real valvedrill, but try while swimming if you can reach your valves. Closing valves without an alert buddy can be tricky, but only reaching is not a problem. Practise frogkick the whole dive, stay horizontal. Frogkicks, backkicks, horizontal trim and bouyancy can be done also with single tank and normal bcd. No finpivot anymore, but neutral bouyancy. No moving hands.

A drysuit depends on where you live. Here an absolutely need. No technical diving without drysuit. In Mexico a wetsuits is also ok. In Florida I have seen also wetsuits.
 
I would recommend you to do TDI Sidemount course and then try TDI Cavern course.

Why? I preffer diving backmount for most caves. It's personal preference to choose for backmount or sidemount.

Some of people already pointed out your age and they were really right :) You can not even imagine what level of skills is required to reach Advanced trimix level.... in caves. Let me give you my example.

Whats wrong with his age? Perfect age to start a dir "gatekeeper" course. He wil learn all the basics of the skills used for cave/tech diving. And the step to cave diving will be a lot smaller after this course.

Regarding caves: my tech instructor is one the most experienced cave instructors in the world and he told me stories about people who get easily narced at 30 m depth or getting panic attacked when going into caves. Mind is playing its tricks when it is completely dark and cold. Now you mention about your ultimate goal to become certified in Advanced trimix in CAVES....Complete at first some of beginning tech courses and then you will understand how extremely hard to go to such level. For most of people this level is simply unobtainable.

Some people just get narced easier then others. You can always choose to dive a 30/30 mix on cold cave dives round 30 meters deep. No one is forcing you to dive nitrox/air.
And there a lot of warm caves too, i preffer Mexico.

If your physically fit and are really determined to cave dive, i don't see why it wouldn't work tbh. I think it's attainable for almost everyone that is physically fit.
 

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