AOW before Tech?

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If you want to be a cave diver, start the progression early.
That is good advice IF you want to be a cave diver. I've had two cave instructors, one taught where in the cave to 'pull and glide' while the other taught absolutely no contact. So I've been in caves several times and they just don't do it for me. I greatly prefer lakes, slow-moving rivers, back bays, and the ocean. All dived solo, often at night. Team and buddy skills have no value to me.

I spent a lot of my early years as an avid fisherman and now get to see what is actually down there in peace and quiet...
 
@lowviz that's why for many people a combined intro-to-tech/cavern/intro is great. You get 4-5 days of instruction, in an environment you think you're interested, from some of the highest qualified instructors out there, and don't have the equipment requirements of going to full cave. You learn the techniques, not necessary team/buddy diving depending on the agency/instructor, and if you want to progress you're there already. If you don't, you at least have meaningful skills that will make you a better and safer diver in other environments.
Many people come to cave country with interest in wreck diving and get hooked. Many others don't, but more often than not, they get hooked.
 
Many people come to cave country with interest in wreck diving and get hooked.

Yup. I never thought looking at endless tunnels of rocks would appeal to me. I still prefer wrecks, but cave diving had an immediate place in my heart once I got started. It’s like wreck diving with no weather blowouts(for the most part).

Now I have another expensive subcategory of diving to enjoy.
 
Same here, I just booked a holiday to Thailand and could do a cave course there. Did it and 8 days later we were full cave certified. I really liked it, my buddy said this was once, but never again.

And I agree, DM as a cert to learn skills for techdiving is not usefull. Better is to start practising direct now.
 
Your current OW certification allows you to dive up to 18 m depth. AOW certification will extend this limit to 30 m. AOW certification does not add much skills, you just try 5 different dives. Cave diving is very serious and requires good buoyonce, trim, propulsion skills. I would recommend you to do TDI Sidemount course and then try TDI Cavern course. If you see that you are comfortable with your skills, then you could progress with further trainings.

AOW card for PADI is 130ft deep. maybe you are referencing other agencies
 
I don't see how AOW is going to assist the OP, in any way. The threads criticizing AOW far outnumber those that praise its merits. Personally, I think it will be a waste of time, for what the OP seeks to accomplish.

You're better off spending your money in training that first ameliorate your fundamental skills. That means achieving good trim, good buoyancy and good propulsion techniques. If you plan on going through GUE, then it's Fundamentals with a Technical rating. I believe TDI has Intro To Tech. Perhaps someone who has cross trained across multiple agencies can chime on equivalent courses. Agencies require a certain number of dives because it takes time to develop certains skills and a specific mindset. After developing those, move on to introductory course for Cave diving.

The majority of the advice you (OP) have received cautions patience as the Zero to Hero mentality will get you hurt or worse in this arena of diving.

a lot of destination diving with deep dives like gordo banks require AOW. and other dive operators may not. but those operators that are lax are lax in many ways.

are you saying all certified divers should be able to dive immediately to 130 feet? AOW not necessary? Maybe it isnt but its another roadblock to accidentally going somewhere you are not prepared.
 
As a 65-year old newbie OW diver (certified in 2008, never dove, now starting up again) I have no advise regarding the technical path you might take. My question is your motive for your end goal - why do you want to be a certified kick-ass cave diver in 2-3 years? Your motivation for the goal is going to bias everything you do along the path to enlightenment.

Do you want to dive caves purely for recreation - diving in caves already mapped and available to explore? Are you wanting to push the boundaries and explore new passages? Do you want to join a team that is linking systems in Florida, Mexico, etc? Perhaps you're of a scientific bent and are interested in aquatic speleology. Just to become a "cave diver" is sort of a vague goal. You'll retain your motivation to navigate the complex chain of instruction and experience outlined by others if your goal is more concrete - "I want to dive Sump 7 at Sistema Huautla."

Although I'm a newbie diver, I have accomplished a few other things so far in my life. I'm an experienced alpine mountaineer, achieved a paraglider pilot license, and was a high level ski instructor for many years. None of those achievements were done for just for the sake of having another notch in my belt. They all came from a love of nature and the natural environment.

If you look deep into your motivations for this cave quest - you just might find an interesting and thrilling career path. My interest in mountaineering drove me to college degrees in geology - and at retirement age I'm still in love with my profession as a geologist. Maybe a bit of introspection in this area will help you resolve questions more important than "do I need AOW or not", but would a degree in marine biology or geomorphology or entymology or archeaology or maybe even geology springboard your love of diving into something really interesting? Just think, pursuing the right Ph.D. might get you free training with NOAA or USGS, maybe even NASA. At 18, the possibilities are nearly limitless. My simple advice - don't lock your thinking in on something as limited as a certificate with your name on in. :)

Holy good god almighty, This is the best post I have ever read on scubaboard period bar none. WOW. You sir I can tell have many gifts in life.

thanks for this post.
 
DM level is 100% useless for diving skills. Theoretically has you experienced in different diving environments, but not necessarily.

If you want to be a cave diver, start the progression early. That should start as intro to tech/fundies as early as you can to make sure you are practicing the right things. When you move into the overhead then becomes a factor of your brain as @PfcAJ said. Could be 18, could be never, but the last thing any technical instructor is going to want to do is break hundreds of dives of bad skills that are now deeply ingrained into muscle memory.

Very true. I did my DM training around the same time I was going cavern. I already had the mind set I was going cave so I approached it that way but none of the DM training helped in cave. If anything it only pulled me in another direction. I had a recreational diving instructor for DM and he had a very different view toward diving than I did. The skills learned in my NAUI master diver helped a lot but my NAUI Divemaster not so much.

I basically had to be 2 different divers 1 rec-DM and 2 cave/tec. Alot of times my technical diving approach spilled over into the OW classes that caused a conflict of interest with the instructor. I have since walked away from being a DM.

Actually need to get that off my name up top.
 
Sorry I'm late! However, I am right at the transition point to technical diving that matches your goals. This might be some useful perspective for you.

I was certified in 2013 and have ~275 dives at present. I completed a lot of specialty courses in my first year of diving, which gave me the opportunity to develop diving skills under supervision (Deep, Night/Limited Viz, Perfect Buoyancy, Nitrox, Rescue, Ice). Almost all of my diving is done in cold water with limited visibility and mild current or surge. After the first year, almost all of my diving was conducted independently with a buddy. Over time, I refined my buoyancy control and propulsion techniques to a fairly high level. I switched to using more technical-style equipment (BP/W, etc.) in Year 3.

At the end of January, I'm starting a combined Full Cave/Advanced Nitrox/Deco Procedures class taught over 14 days. I expect to experience some struggle during the course while I learn how to integrate new skiils and tasks, but I do think I have a good shot at reaching at least the NSS-CDS Apprentice Level (a provisional step before full certification).

I expect that the most important part of being able to succeed will be that essential skills (maintaining buoyancy, trim, good breathing patterns, and situational awareness) come automatically, instead of requiring effort. I would say that I had accumulated enough overall practice to start feeling good about these automatic skills around 150 dives, but I continue to work on them during every dive.
 
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