Are BOW and AOW classes really changing that much

[wetb4igetinthewater]

I was actually in a quarry. The diver surfaced from about 100 feet and was about 100 yards from the dock. I was there with my wife doing some practice dives when we surfaced and heard someone cal for help. I have a DPV with me and scootered over to the dive. No rescue breaths were given since I was scootering. He was blue, unconscious and unresponsive. I dragged him to shore and started CPR. The paramedics arrived and I intubated him on the dock. EMS took him to the hospital and then to the chamber where he recovered. Grant it that not everyone who rescues a diver will be an ED physician, but the skills are still important to know and be prepared to use.

Sounds like you got to him in the nick of time. Well done! I'm more curious of people anyone has come across a diver unconscious underwater, not breathing, taken to the surface and swam in and the victim ultimately survived.

 

[Rred]

Mahoney, you are thinking and that is most unusual these days. As you've noticed, it is much simpler to just look at the freaking tables, than to futz around with different dive computers trying to pull up some fast numbers. (And fwiw, there are multiple sets of dive tables out there. The USN, PADI, NAUI, "normal" versus "cold water" all should be considered, they aren't all the same these days.)

A dive operator was pitching me on a boat dive and mentioned how they usually planned it. After dinner I checked my tables because I had a creeping suspicion...and sure enough I could tell even before I did the repetitive groups, they were pushing a double dive into a double bounce dive, pushing too far into a short surface interval.

Computers are nice, but anyone who has been around electronics and water for a while can tell you that all o-ring seals leak, the only question is when. Yes, do enough maintenance and they can be reliable...which is why a Rolex Oyster is still supposed to be professionally serviced every year, even Rolex doesn't trust seals and gaskets after that. The tables? If they are on plastic, they just don't care about water, or batteries, or electronic failures.

But that comes back to something I noticed about PADI a long time ago. Ignoring the variation in instructor quality, PADI's core concept seems to be "make diving easy" aka nuggetizing everything. Small easy nuggets, to make it easy to "accomplish" each small step. As opposed to what has become now, a much larger and more complicated arena of diving.

They used to sell embroidered patches for all the dive agencies, and IIRC only PADI had one big round patch--and then a dozen smaller additions to be sewn around it. Like the stripes on a master sergeant's sleeve, reflected 25 years of service....lots of small "nuggets". Which is only problematic if that means divers aren't fully trained, because they haven't completed four years worth of sequential courses.

But, hey, arguably PADI has been "the most successful" in the business. I'm signing up for the "tungsten bulb illuminated left handed weeknights during months ending in an "R" digital macro photography" course. I understand it is very different from the "weekends" course.(G)

 

[boulderjohn]

The diver surfaced from about 100 feet and was about 100 yards from the dock.

This may seem like a quibble, but my reference was to the rarity of surfacing a diver (etc.) and having that diver live. To expand, I was talking about finding an unconscious diver under water, bringing the diver to the surface, (etc.) and making a recovery. In your case, the diver made it to the surface on his own, and was supposedly alive and conscious at that point.

 

[ScubaDocER]

This may seem like a quibble, but my reference was to the rarity of surfacing a diver (etc.) and having that diver live. To expand, I was talking about finding an unconscious diver under water, bringing the diver to the surface, (etc.) and making a recovery. In your case, the diver made it to the surface on his own, and was supposedly alive and conscious at that point.

You are correct John that I didn't bring him up and I'm not sure who did. When I surfaced someone yelled for help and I scootered out to him. He was however unconscious, unresponsive and cyanotic. Not sure if that's relevant to the topic but just wanted to share my experience.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with boulderjohn back there in that there have been improvements to the PADI OW course during the 4 summers I assisted (2012-15). These were changes since I took OW in 2005.
My feeling has always been the "weekend" course is too packed with material/skills over a short time--but that's just my view. I thought the 3 week type course that I took was better.
But there is basically no Rescue skills. I don't consider 2 or 3 tows and cramp removal rescues. At least a cursory going over of all or most of the skills taught in the Rescue Course would be a real improvement. In fact, you don't have to take CPR until taking the Rescue course. So, as an OW diver, you don't know the procedures for dealing with a panicked diver at the surface, towing the diver to safety while rescue breathing, etc.--Then you may not know CPR once on dry land. And chances are you're buddied with another OW diver--like I was.

 

[boulderjohn]

At least a cursory going over of all or most of the skills taught in the Rescue Course would be a real improvement.

Almost all of that is now included in the reading materials in the OW course. It is not done in the pool.

The key part of the Rescue Course includes the part of the course that includes the following:

• Discovering an unresponsive (unconscious) diver underwater
• Bringing that diver to the surface
• Realizing the diver is not breathing
• Beginning rescue breaths and continuing them uninterrupted without ever compromising the airway while performing the following skills
  • removing all the victim's gear
  • removing all the rescuer's gear
  • towing the diver toward a destination
• Getting the diver out of the water
• Performing CPR
• Administering oxygen during the CPR

That's a big task, and it takes quite a while to learn to do it right. Including it in the course would add a whole lot of time.

And what would be the benefit? I have asked this many times in the last decade--does anyone know a single instance in the history of the world in which the above scenario has led to a successful rescue? When I have asked it, I occasionally get a response in which someone describes an incident in which SOME of the above has happened, but not ALL of the above. I myself know of a case in which someone saw a diver lose buoyancy on the surface, swam down to catch him as he was submerging, pull him to the boat where others pulled him on and administered CPR successfully. In another thread recently someone talked of hearing a diver had gone unconscious on the surface, towed him to shore with a scooter, and had CPR administered successfully.

In short, adding all that gear-removal-while-doing-rescue-breaths would add about a day to the OW course and would have no real benefit for anyone.

 

[drbill]

Going back to the 60s when I finally had to get certified to get air fills, courses have changed a LOT. My "OW" course (LAC) back then essentially covered most things in today's OW-AOW-Rescue sequence. It was a three week course and fairly intense plus a weekend of boat diving and a beach dive.

 

[TMHeimer]

John, Thanks a lot. I must admit I had no idea that stuff was there now. When was it added since 2005? I can't recall any of it being discussed from 2012-15, but I was rarely in the classroom e learning review sessions.
Am wondering if PADI puts in some sort of disclaimer saying like "This is for information only. PADI accepts no responsibility if you do something wrong, and suggests taking the Rescue Course".

 

[boulderjohn]

John, Thanks a lot. I must admit I had no idea that stuff was there now. When was it added since 2005? I can't recall any of it being discussed from 2012-15, but I was rarely in the classroom e learning review sessions.
Am wondering if PADI puts in some sort of disclaimer saying like "This is for information only. PADI accepts no responsibility if you do something wrong, and suggests taking the Rescue Course".

The new manual was a few years ago. It was definitely there in 2015, but it is not stressed.

 

[TMHeimer]

The new manual was a few years ago. It was definitely there in 2015, but it is not stressed.

You didn't include dealing with a panicked diver on the list. Is there anything on that?