Are the majority of dive shops bad?

[PalmettoDiver0215]

I really hesitated to post this question. I consider myself relatively new to diving, I have 18 dives under my belt and have been certified for 2 years. In that time I've encountered three different dive shops for certifications/gear and about that many for dives. While the shops I've dived with have been fine, the others have a lot to be desired.

Dive shop X is local to me and is an SSI shop. I did my explore scuba with them. However, as I was considering my OW certification the SDI shop near me was $200 cheaper. Since I wasn't sure how much I'd realistically dive, I did make the choice to go with the less expensive option. My wife recently went to dive shop X to buy me some fins and they all but berated her because I chose to get my certifications elsewhere. They kind of mocked my choice in fins to her as well (no they weren't split fins, lol).

Dive Shop D is where I got my OW. I had a great experience and feel I got a very good training with them. However, when I went for an SDI specialty class I was jammed in with the SDI Adventure Diver class and didn't feel like I got a very good bang for my buck (both financially and training-wise). I decided to seek out another SDI shop to continue my training.

Dive Shop J is where I took 3 SDI specialty classes and also took my daughter to get her OW certification. The shop is about a 90 minute drive for me. I completed my checkout dives with them in Florida, not near their shop so I left without my cert cards knowing that Dive Shop J would send them to me. The classes and the dive training seemed adequate but now I can't seem to get them to mail me my cert cards. I've been messaging the shop for a month now. I had even offered to drive down to get them and they said they were already mailed. Well obviously not, I'd have them by now. I could have crawled with the cards in my mouth and gotten here faster. Yes, I have the digital certs, but I also want the physical cards. All told, I've spent $1500 with that shop this year and don't feel I'm being unreasonable in expecting the cards to be mailed to me in a timely fashion.

It just appears to me that these shops may know how to dive, but really don't understand how to run a business. I know that these are small businesses. I know they have families to feed. I don't feel like being the jerky customer who escalates complaints. But I also feel like there's no reason for a customer to be treated this way.

Am I doing something wrong here? I'm just feeling very frustrated.

 

[Marie13]

I’ll be upfront: I’m a DRIS local customer, done all my training with them from the beginning, shop almost exclusively there. Drive is 50 miles from home, 35 miles from work. I will go down one evening a week during the season (early April to late October) for fills. Due to Chicago area traffic, it might take me as long as 2 hours from work, then a hour home (which is normal). Shop is totally on the opposite side of the Chicago area from me. Good prices, good in stock inventory, and they bank 32% nitrox so my tanks don’t have to be O2 cleaned. I dive with tech gear, and DRIS sells what I need.

I’ve checked out another 4-5 shops within a reasonable distance. They either have little stock (one looked at me cross-eyed when I asked for a mesh duffle bag - they only carry small snorkeling gear bags), have little I would want (I’m a cold water diver and virtually all the local shops - except DRIS and maybe 1-2 others - are warm water shops, plus I dive a tech setup), and most can’t even fill my HP steel tanks. They have 3442 psi service pressure and the shop compressors only go up to 3000 psi. In other words, they’re used to filling AL80s. The store staff are often cranky. Almost always tried to push their upcoming warm water trips on me. They were mostly horrified I don’t do warm water.

Just found a shop 10 min from my office that will fill my steels, but they charge more for HP tanks, and I’d have to drop them off. I can walk into DRIS with 6 tanks, wait perhaps an hour while I’m happily chatting with store staff, and walk out with them. Even with the cost of gas and my time, still cheaper to get fills at DRIS.

I see the instructors from many of the other area shops out at the quarry (where I dive when I’m not on the Great Lakes for whatever reason), and the sight does not inspire confidence. I refer to them as “diver factories.” Huge classes. I’ve had numerous classes suddenly swarm where I’ve been diving at the quarry. Multiple students have kicked me in the face, plus they’ve attempted to either stand or sit on my head. Doesn’t matter what you do to avoid them, there they are! Seriously! Why do they ignore the bubbles coming from right below them? As I’ve told my dive buddies, next time a student tries to kick me in the face or sit/stand on me, I’m grabbing their fin and not letting go. And if I find out what instructor, I have no problem telling them after the dive they need to tell their students to watch out for others’ bubbles.

Yes, that makes me VERY cranky.

 

[FinnMom]

Dive shop X is local to me and is an SSI shop. I did my explore scuba with them. However, as I was considering my OW certification the SDI shop near me was $200 cheaper. Since I wasn't sure how much I'd realistically dive, I did make the choice to go with the less expensive option. My wife recently went to dive shop X to buy me some fins and they all but berated her because I chose to get my certifications elsewhere. They kind of mocked my choice in fins to her as well (no they weren't split fins, lol).

It's odd how many businesses can't seem to realize that negative behaviour is bad for business. They just go with their knee-jerk reaction instead of taking the time to think how they should act to get the best result for themselves in the future. Negative feedback like your going elsewhere is a valuable resource; it tells them what they need to do better/differently. Even if they can't compete doing something better or cheaper than the competition, talking to you might give them clues to what would attract you towards choosing them anyway, or maybe for some other products or services.

IMHO many small businesses suffer from the fact that the only sales staff are the owners: if they hired sales staff they would probably evaluate the hired staff's interactions more critically and never let them be anywhere near so unfriendly, unhelpful and otherwise problematic as these owners themselves can be. Keeping a small business in the black is hard enough w/o shooting yourself in the foot by alientating folks you have already succeeded in getting into your store.

 

[W W Meixner]

PD...

Valid question...

Dive shops are retail...period...and like anything retail...the prime objective is to...''fill the till''...some can do that in a very compliant manner with your needs and wants taken into consideration...while those that operate under the assumption that they have a captive audience...cannot...most of whom regardless of which side of the fence they prefer to stand on are struggling...more now than ever...dive shop associates working for minimum wage...plus a small sales commission...place their needs far above yours...

I have long since become self reliant from dive shops...LDS or otherwise...when a purchase becomes necessary on desired...I know exactly what it is I want...and I can do a lot better than typical 130/200% dive shop mark-up...even with shipping/any duties/dollar exchange factored in...

Ordering from large On-Line retailers like DGX does not suit everyone...but it serves me well and has done so for a long time...local dive shops have a field day when you walk through their door...''thinking'' you know what you need...or would like but are unsure...this is the prime reason why so many divers end up with two piles of gear...one useful pile that sees regular service...and one larger pile...that is for the most part totally useless...

As far as fills...I fill my cylinders at dive destinations...and make sure they are are full before I start the journey home...

With the exception of re-hydro...I service my own tanks...as well as everything else...gear tech certifications are very helpful...in the effort of becoming ''self reliant''...saves you all kinds of money...in many ways...

Contrary to what some divers feel is gospel...the diver with the largest pile of dive gear is not necessarily the winner...

If you find yourself being an LDS supporter...support the best...and let the others slip into the abyss...which they eventually will...in some cases...the sooner the better...

Dive safe...shop carefully...consider your options...

Warren

 

[sea_ledford]

In my experience, yes most dive shops are not very good. However, a good portion of them just might not be good for ME. I try not to blame bad class experiences on the shop in general because they will all have a bad instructor every once in a while. General bad customer service though? See ya!

Dive shops tend to fall into one of two categories: shops run by people that are passionate about diving, but are horrible business people, or business people that for some reason decide to open a dive shop. Every once in a while you'll get good business people that are passionate about diving, but they are pretty few and far between. But they all have good on-line presence!

Regarding lack of cards being mailed, I can't count the number of times people throw them away thinking they are just junk mail. I worked in a dive shop for about a year and a half and there wasn't a month that would go by without at least one person saying they never got their cards. We gave them the option of having them mailed to their house or picked up from the shop, and I'd guess about 25% of the home mailed ones were "never received". A lost card every year or so I would expect be from the certification agency. Incorrect addresses, or unable to read the hand written address? Sure, probably a few of those. But 25% of them? No way. We would re-order the cards for them, but would make them come to the shop to pick them up. Now I think you can order a new card yourself.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
It just appears to me that these shops may know how to dive, but really don't understand how to run a business. . . .

You're pretty new to SB it seems, but rest assured this isn't the first time this sort of question has been discussed, and your statement above sums up what I recall of these discussions. People who love diving open dive shops, not people with lots of business experience.

 

[Midwesterndvr]

I’ll be upfront: I’m a DRIS local customer, done all my training with them from the beginning, shop almost exclusively there. Drive is 50 miles from home, 35 miles from work. I will go down one evening a week during the season (early April to late October) for fills. Due to Chicago area traffic, it might take me as long as 2 hours from work, then a hour home (which is normal). Shop is totally on the opposite side of the Chicago area from me. Good prices, good in stock inventory, and they have bank 32% nitrox so my tanks don’t have to be O2 cleaned. I dive with tech gear, and DRIS sells what I need.

I’ve checked out another 4-5 shops within a reasonable distance. They either have little stock (one looked at my cross-eyed when I asked for a mesh duffle bag - they only carry small snorkeling gear bags), have little I would want (I’m a cold water diver and virtually all the local shops - except DRIS and maybe 1-2 others - are warm water shops, plus I dive a tech setup), and most can’t even fill my HP steel tanks. They have 3442 psi service pressure and the shop compressors only go up to 3000 psi. In other words, they’re used to filling AL80s. The store staff are often cranky. Almost always tried to push their upcoming warm water trips on me. They were mostly horrified I don’t do warm water.

Just found a shop 10 min from my office that will fill my steels, but they charge more for HP tanks, and I’d have to drop them off. I can walk into DRIS with 6 tanks, wait perhaps an hour while I’m happily chatting with store staff, and walk out with them. Even with the cost of gas and my time, still cheaper to get fills at DRIS.

I see the instructors from many of the other area shops out at the quarry (where I dive when I’m not on the Great Lakes for whatever reason), and the sight does not inspire confidence. I refer to them as “diver factories.” Huge classes. I’ve had numerous classes suddenly swarm where I’ve been diving at the quarry. Multiple students have kicked me in the face, plus they’ve attempted to either stand or sit on my head. Doesn’t matter what you do to avoid them, there they are! Seriously! Why do they ignore the bubbles coming from right below them? As I’ve told my dive buddies, next time a student tries to kick me in the face or sit/stand on me, I’m grabbing their fin and not letting go. And if I find out what instructor, I have no problem telling them after the dive they need to tell their students to watch out for others’ bubbles.

Yes, that makes me VERY cranky.

Do you work for this shop? You don’t ever miss a chance to do some advertising for DRIS which does an Awful lot of it on their own.

 

[caruso]

You need to know how to get people to do things for you after you've given them your good hard earned cash.

If it was me I'd be ripping them a new one, although it would have followed a gradual but steady escalation from impatience to annoyance to downright screaming "I'm really F'ing pissed off and after I leave negative reviews all over the internet and report you to the BBB, I'm going to down there to solve this issue and it's going to be the worst day of your lives".

The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

I really hesitated to post this question. I consider myself relatively new to diving, I have 18 dives under my belt and have been certified for 2 years. In that time I've encountered three different dive shops for certifications/gear and about that many for dives. While the shops I've dived with have been fine, the others have a lot to be desired.

Dive shop X is local to me and is an SSI shop. I did my explore scuba with them. However, as I was considering my OW certification the SDI shop near me was $200 cheaper. Since I wasn't sure how much I'd realistically dive, I did make the choice to go with the less expensive option. My wife recently went to dive shop X to buy me some fins and they all but berated her because I chose to get my certifications elsewhere. They kind of mocked my choice in fins to her as well (no they weren't split fins, lol).

Dive Shop D is where I got my OW. I had a great experience and feel I got a very good training with them. However, when I went for an SDI specialty class I was jammed in with the SDI Adventure Diver class and didn't feel like I got a very good bang for my buck (both financially and training-wise). I decided to seek out another SDI shop to continue my training.

Dive Shop J is where I took 3 SDI specialty classes and also took my daughter to get her OW certification. The shop is about a 90 minute drive for me. I completed my checkout dives with them in Florida, not near their shop so I left without my cert cards knowing that Dive Shop J would send them to me. The classes and the dive training seemed adequate but now I can't seem to get them to mail me my cert cards. I've been messaging the shop for a month now. I had even offered to drive down to get them and they said they were already mailed. Well obviously not, I'd have them by now. I could have crawled with the cards in my mouth and gotten here faster. Yes, I have the digital certs, but I also want the physical cards. All told, I've spent $1500 with that shop this year and don't feel I'm being unreasonable in expecting the cards to be mailed to me in a timely fashion.

It just appears to me that these shops may know how to dive, but really don't understand how to run a business. I know that these are small businesses. I know they have families to feed. I don't feel like being the jerky customer who escalates complaints. But I also feel like there's no reason for a customer to be treated this way.

Am I doing something wrong here? I'm just feeling very frustrated.

I have 3 dive shops near me. Two within 15 min drive in opposite directions. I like all 3 for different reasons and like making friends at the two closest shops.

Fyi I would go into the shop that gave your wife a hard time and talk to the owner. I would absolutely do this. Let him know just because you did one course with another shop didnt mean you would not do other courses with them or that you wouldnt spend thousands of dollars on their next big sale.

If its the owner that disrespected my wife by making fun of me or us id have strong words with them.

 

[jgttrey]

There's a lot of truth in all of that, but I've learned to cut a little slack to the LDS. Don't get me wrong, I don't put with bad behavior or dismissive customer service, but there are some economic realities.

A dive shop is probably not the most lucrative investment people could make. Generally, they do it because they love the sport and often much of the revenue comes from dive travel, not just selling gear or training. They can't compete with DRIS or DGX for inventory. Many of the dive shops I've seen that actually do have a lot of floor space with large inventory have tons of junk. Looks great on the wall, but as you get more experienced, you'll find that a significant percentage is garbage like full face snorkels and high margin plastic crap. Many smaller shops carry less inventory but are more selective. They'll order things for you if they don't have it, but if what you want is to browse 25 different regulator models, you can forget it.

I found this frustrating for a long time, being used to the instant gratification of a larger store, or better yet, Amazon Prime, but it's just the reality.

Where a decent LDS adds value is in education and relationship. My LDS is small with not a lot of inventory. But, I also watch them spend an hour with a single customer working through just mask and fins, let alone wetsuits, BC's or whatever. Helping them set up, fix problems, etc. I don't consider that "extraordinary" but it goes a long way towards explaining why they charge more than Amazon or Leisure Pro. And, yes, sometimes there's a frustrating sense that things are moving in "scuba time," which is like "Island Time," only slower.

But, while I don't buy everything at my LDS, but I sure try to throw them what business I can because I've spent tons and tons of time there learning, and I figure that deserves loyalty and is a valuable thing that I should be paying for. At a different LDS when I first started, I remember my dive computer was late shipping to the shop and I was going to Mexico, the owner took his own ($800) computer off his wrist, handed it to me, and said "use this." No paperwork, nothing. A lot of LDSs are like this - a little community.

I'm a type A personality, so inefficiency does sometimes grate on me, for sure. And, I'm not arguing that you ought to put up with bad service. But, I've learned to have a different, or maybe broader, set of expectations because it is a boutique business and often times the value you get is not strictly about the product.