Arrogance and humility among divers

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Don't judge all tech divers. Some of the nicest and most humble divers I know are tech divers.

Oh, no doubt! I know some very nice, very humble tech divers. And, FWIW, the two GUE divers I have personally been in the water with are probably the 2 best "looking" (in the water) divers I have been in the water with. And they are also 2 of the nicest, most humble divers I know, too. Just great people all around.

My post was definitely not a whitewash of all tech divers. It was just to say that the most arrogance I commonly see on display is from tech divers. SOME tech divers, certainly not all.
 
In that time I certain discussion even ended in my receiving what I believed was a very credible death threat because I disagreed with someone.

Since then the politics have remained. I joined scubaboard in 2002 IIRC and the DIR wars were still smoldering. I think that the DIR wars did two things to ...

DIR made arrogance OK. In fact, DIR made arrogance the norm in the mid to late 1990's. I would submit that during the DIR wars George Irvine was single-handedly responsible for alienating more divers than any other individual in the history of diving. He normalized arrogance as being equivalent to being right and he modeled a highly dysfunctional form of communication. The damage was severe in the least.
George Irvine was arrested during this time for making death threats to a well-known figure in scuba history during an Internet discussion. He had used a sock puppet to do it, but the person receiving the threats saw through the ruse, and the evidence was on the computer when he was arrested. He may have been responsible for your death threat as well.

Meanwhile on scubaboard we were locked in battle about "agency bashing". A new kind of arrogance had emerged, namely, which agency was best...... There were differences but people were making severe value judgments about those differences. I think the high point was when one of the directors (or soon to be directors) of CMAS came on scubaboard and posed as "just another instructor" and spent a year or more tearing PADI down.... while those of us who had any energy left corrected him time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time time after time after time

To no avail. This was the ultimate arrogance about agencies, if you ask me. GUE did their own thing and their message was not always easy to hear but this CMAS guy is the one who put the arrogance into agency bashing.
I am sure you know I remember that well. His attacks mostly came from his claims of NAUI superiority rather than CMAS. It was, fortunately, his all-too-brief work in the CMAS administration that enabled us to stop him and gain a respite.

What do those two have in common?

They both used the same strategy: making vicious attacks on their opponents through gross exaggerations and outright lies about the opponents' qualities, characteristics, and policies. The gross exaggeration strategy was so pronounced in the Irvine crowd that it became a cliché to summarize their arguments as "You're gonna die!" One example was a ScubaBoard regular who used to claim (what follows is no exaggeration on my part) that in ALL cases in which people use a traditional alternate air source rather than a long hose/bungeed necklace), the alternate comes loose, drags in the silt, and becomes so damaged that it can NEVER work when needed.

The second person used outright lies and distortions, and it is actually the more maddening, because it is the one that persists to this day. He (and others) repeated the same lies over and over and over again, even after being corrected over and over and over again. I have a reputation as being a PADI defender, but I am actually a defender of the truth. Every time someone repeats an old lie about PADI, I feel compelled to correct it. It keeps me very busy. I am tired of it. Just a day or so ago someone repeated the old lie that PADI instructors are not allowed to add to the course content, and I didn't even bother to respond to it. I'm just plain too tired of doing it.
 
When one climbs up on the soapbox they should remember that what they see as their pulpit, others may see differently:
I have my share of critics and appreciate each and everyone of them. Some are insightful, some are jealous and some simply don't like a decision or decisions I've made. It's easy to use the term "arrogance" as a club or epithet. We see that in the political realm all the time, where it's one of the first faults cited, whether it's accurate or not. It's also pretty common in interpersonal relationships where a dislike for a person can cause someone to decry all sorts of faults, real or imagined, in order to injure rather than to instruct. It's best to keep those messages private lest people perceive your dislike as mere pettiness.

As a general rule, if reading someone's post upsets you or makes you angry, just put them on ignore.
 
George Irvine was arrested during this time for making death threats to a well-known figure in scuba history during an Internet discussion. He had used a sock puppet to do it, but the person receiving the threats saw through the ruse, and the evidence was on the computer when he was arrested. He may have been responsible for your death threat as well.

I am sure you know I remember that well. His attacks mostly came from his claims of NAUI superiority rather than CMAS. It was, fortunately, his all-too-brief work in the CMAS administration that enabled us to stop him and gain a respite.

What do those two have in common?

They both used the same strategy: making vicious attacks on their opponents through gross exaggerations and outright lies about the opponents' qualities, characteristics, and policies. The gross exaggeration strategy was so pronounced in the Irvine crowd that it became a cliché to summarize their arguments as "You're gonna die!" One example was a ScubaBoard regular who used to claim (what follows is no exaggeration on my part) that in ALL cases in which people use a traditional alternate air source rather than a long hose/bungeed necklace), the alternate comes loose, drags in the silt, and becomes so damaged that it can NEVER work when needed.

The second person used outright lies and distortions, and it is actually the more maddening, because it is the one that persists to this day. He (and others) repeated the same lies over and over and over again, even after being corrected over and over and over again. I have a reputation as being a PADI defender, but I am actually a defender of the truth. Every time someone repeats an old lie about PADI, I feel compelled to correct it. It keeps me very busy. I am tired of it. Just a day or so ago someone repeated the old lie that PADI instructors are not allowed to add to the course content, and I didn't even bother to respond to it. I'm just plain too tired of doing it.

Maybe you can provide an answer, does the acronym PADI really stand for Put Another Dollar In?

fuelfire.gif


In case it is not obvious...

stirpot.gif
all in humor.
 
As a general rule, if reading someone's post upsets you or makes you angry, realize you probably need to get a life as it's only the internet.

I made my own changes. And as I've not read the rules I am going to guess I have broken them.
 
As a general rule, if reading someone's post upsets you or makes you angry, just put them on ignore.
Here is the exception to that.

Let's say you are a PADI technical diving instructor living in an area with a tiny technical diving market. People repeating mindless lies about you and your agency has a very direct and very negative impact on your working life.
 
As a general rule, if reading someone's post upsets you or makes you angry, just put them on ignore.

Good advice. But amusing to come shortly after the comments of you, boulderjohn, and others about trying to correct lies and distortions.
 
Besides, I can ignore most folks in person if I choose, and do not need any silly button to make that happen.


I have my share of critics and appreciate each and everyone of them. Some are insightful, some are jealous and some simply don't like a decision or decisions I've made. It's easy to use the term "arrogance" as a club or epithet. We see that in the political realm all the time, where it's one of the first faults cited, whether it's accurate or not. It's also pretty common in interpersonal relationships where a dislike for a person can cause someone to decry all sorts of faults, real or imagined, in order to injure rather than to instruct. It's best to keep those messages private lest people perceive your dislike as mere pettiness.

As a general rule, if reading someone's post upsets you or makes you angry, just put them on ignore.
 
Maybe you can provide an answer, does the acronym PADI really stand for Put Another Dollar In?

View attachment 430384

In case it is not obvious...

View attachment 430385 all in humor.

John Gaffney, founder of NASDS (now SSI) started that phrase of
"Put another dollar in" back in the 1970's. Along with "They certified a duck".

John Gaffney and John Cronin, of PADI had a long standing and notorious feud
regarding dive training.

End result is PADI emerged as a money bank, now purchased several times for the
high cash flow produced.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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