Article: Kudos to Bob Bailey - NWGratefulDiver

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I am a freedive spearfisher. Tho I am personally opposed to spearfishing on scuba, and I choose not to take octopus of any kind because I just think they are too cool, and I have seen other freedivers boasting or behaving in what I consider un-sportsman like behavior, if they are not doing anything illegal, why drag them thru the mud? Why lambast them in a public manor? Leave the poor kid alone or keep it between you and him. Tell him how you feel and walk away. If you want the octopus to be protected, start a scientific study that proves they need protection and present your argument on it's merits, not sensationalism. I think eating factory farmed animals is inhumane, I don't think Bob would like me to snap a bunch of pictures of him chowing down on a big fat hamburger and putting it up on a PETA website, and starting a campaign to ban factory farming using his name and images for posters and what not.

not intending to start yet another argument on this subject, but I think your analogy is a little off... Many people eat big fat hamburgers every day, but nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day and it wasn't just one person's view that the harvesting shouldn't be done at this site, it was the view of almost the entire PNW diving community.
 
This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.

---------- Post added December 10th, 2012 at 04:05 PM ----------

This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.
 
This is completely ludicrous. To all the protesters out there...have you ever ate a chicken sandwich? Big Mac? Thick juicy steak? Sushi? Fish filet? I have some bad news for you types, call it harsh reality if you will. These creatures were not allowed to die a nice peaceful death of natural causes so their flesh could nourish your bodies and assure your survival. They were slaughtered at a commercial processing facility by the most expeditious means possible. Again, reality warning here, this involved a sharp blow to the head followed immediately by severing the corotid artery so the still beating heart can pump most of the blood from the carcass. This very necessary step prevents the blood from pooling in the flesh which can cause off tastes, bad color and affects the keeping qualities of the meat. That applies to larger animals but poultry is handled a little differently. They skip the blow to the head. They simply hang the live chickens/turkeys by their feet and slit their throat immediately or simply lp off their heads. Again, this allows the still beating heart to flush the carcass of blood as they flutter helplessly. I'm not trying to "be mean" or "gross anyone out" but introduce the ignorant to the realities of their daily combo meals. We country folk raise our own cattle and hogs and butcher them every fall. We choose to raise our own meat under conditions of our own choosing rather than a sterile, detached purchase at the grocer. So why the outcry for the octopus? Because it's an unusual creature? Because it's deemed "cute?" Food prejudices perhaps? Please understand that our Asian, Japanese and even Mediterranian cousins hold no such qualms and highly appreciate this most advanced of mollusks for the gastronomic delight that it is. Does the thought of consuming dog flesh abhor you? Koreans relish such activity. Do you appreciate a good BBQ brisket sandwich? A Hindu would be appalled at such a suggstion! My point is, the man was engaged in a perfectly legal and regulated activity. He broke no laws and hurt no one. I've no doubt the state did thorough research and determined that there were sufficient Giant octopus to sustain a reasonable harvest of one per day, per diver. These quotas are constantly monotored and adjusted to maintain a healthy, sustainable population. Modern game management strategies and techniques represent a rare bright spot in man's attempt at manipulating the natural world. White-tailed deer are a good example but there are many others. Through sound management and sustainable harvest practices the deer population has recovered and exceeded that of just a hundred years ago many times over. Please understand folks, we are already regulated far too much. Do not let your feelings and emotions dictate not only the actions of others but laws and regulations that are already in place and are accomplishing their stated goals. If you are a vegetarian or whatnot then you do have a leg to stand on, albeit a small one. I respect your right to choose not to eat animal flesh but do not respect any insistance on imposing your views on others, any more than someone imposing their religious views or moral views upon others. But for a meater-eater to decry and protest the legal harvest of fish and game is the very height of hypocrisy. And to Bob and others of his ilk, if the scene of the harvest bothered you, I'm sorry that you had to witness it. But I assure you it was far more benign and "fair" than the ribeye steak or chicken sandwich that you had for lunch. When hunting, at least the game has a sporting chance. You must do so on their turf and in their environment. That chicken or cow had no chance in hell.

I don't think any "protester" is arguing that hunting octopus should be banned, merely that there is a time and place for it.
 
Waah! Someone on SpearBoard brought it to my attention that someone didn't like some hunting, said so, and now part of the ocean might be further regulated because lots of people agreed with them! Waah! Waah!

Forgive my paraphrasing of your ridiculously long, rambling post.

Speaking only for myself, I don't care whether you or anyone else hunts (I do), but I have no problem trying to ensure you do it when, where, and in a manner that suits me. If that's a vote I win, so much the better. If not, there's always tomorrow. You can feel free to do the same.

This situation in a nutshell: two young males did something legal that upset a sizable portion of the divers in their locality. Bob and the local dive shops learned of this, and did something legal that upset a sizable portion of irrelevant spearos largely unrelated to the PNW. A few internet Rambos on both sides made posts that might cross the line from legal speech to illegal true threats.

Now, all actually involved seem to have resolved their differences, and nobody I've seen here has supported actual threats against either of the two who took the octo. All they've done is support Bob and others' rights to do whatever they see fit within the letter of the law. And since the letter of the law is what gives you such a chubby for the young hunters here, you should be all about Bob's freedom to act within the law. Of course, you're a hypocrite, so you aren't :)
 
I am a freedive spearfisher. Tho I am personally opposed to spearfishing on scuba, and I choose not to take octopus of any kind because I just think they are too cool, and I have seen other freedivers boasting or behaving in what I consider un-sportsman like behavior, if they are not doing anything illegal, why drag them thru the mud? Why lambast them in a public manor? Leave the poor kid alone or keep it between you and him. Tell him how you feel and walk away. If you want the octopus to be protected, start a scientific study that proves they need protection and present your argument on it's merits, not sensationalism. I think eating factory farmed animals is inhumane, I don't think Bob would like me to snap a bunch of pictures of him chowing down on a big fat hamburger and putting it up on a PETA website, and starting a campaign to ban factory farming using his name and images for posters and what not.
Yep, here we go.

I would respectfully suggest that if you are going to go to the trouble of starting an account just to chime in on this, you might also go through the trouble of reading through the thread and getting it right.

AFAIK, no one has even once suggested that the octopus species is endangered and should be protected. The protection sought is for the site. You may think you have the right to impose your own ideas on what the community there should be able to decide, but my own feeling is that if the locals there decide that the site's value is increased by offering it the protection of park status, then I think that's their decision to make. Not mine, not yours. Theirs.

There are a number of other places in the world that are protected from hunting so divers can go look at wildlife and not worry about whether it gets killed in front of them. I'm not above hunting myself, and am not very squeamish about much, but it shouldn't be too much of a stretch for a reasonably working brain to make that even the most avid hunter probably doesn't want to take his kids to a petting zoo when there's a chance that someone's going to come along and cap Bambi in front of them.

This "poor kid" didn't get drug through any mud. He was living in mud: he acted like a creep someplace, and brought attention to himself, and once people started looking at what he advertised about himself on his Facebook page, they found racism, animal cruelty, and confirmation beyond measure that he was exactly the kind of punk you'd rather not have spoil a nice place. But by all means, bring all this crap back up, it will be really great for him for you to re-open these wounds.

blah blah... reality... blah blah... death... blah blah... flesh ... blah blah... slaughtered ... blah blah... sharp blow to the head ... blah blah... severing the corotid artery ... blah blah... still beating heart... blah blah... blood ... blah blah... carcass... blah blah... blood pooling ... blah blah... more flesh ... blah blah... more blows to the head... blah blah... more throat slitting... blah blah... lp off their heads... blah blah... still beating heart again ... blah blah... even more blood ... blah blah... shaking things up a little by fluttering helplessly... blah blah... racial stuff about Asian, Japanese, Mediterranian,Koreans and Hindus ... blah blah...... blah blah... a little more flesh ... blah blah... ilk... blah blah... hell.
:shocked2:Dude, take your meds.
 
not intending to start yet another argument on this subject, but I think your analogy is a little off... Many people eat big fat hamburgers every day, but nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day and it wasn't just one person's view that the harvesting shouldn't be done at this site, it was the view of almost the entire PNW diving community.

Sorry, but I think you don't understand my point. Take of 1 octopus per diver per day is LEGAL where it was taken. And I'd like to see some evidence that "nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day". Eating 50 factory farmed hamburgers per person per day is legal anywhere in the US. If Bob and the "entire PNW diving community" has his favorite spots for diving and doesn't want to see people taking octopi, he has every right to do something about it. But to make an innocent, law abiding diver the poster boy of an anti-octopus hunting campaign is flat out wrong.
 
Sorry, but I think you don't understand my point. Take of 1 octopus per diver per day is LEGAL where it was taken. And I'd like to see some evidence that "nobody was harvesting octopus at this site until that day". Eating 50 factory farmed hamburgers per person per day is legal anywhere in the US. If Bob and the "entire PNW diving community" has his favorite spots for diving and doesn't want to see people taking octopi, he has every right to do something about it. But to make an innocent, law abiding diver the poster boy of an anti-octopus hunting campaign is flat out wrong.

well, like I said, not interested in arguing about this anymore :)
 

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