Article on Ben McDaniel - Vortex Springs Case

[ScubaSteve]

Please do read the threads on this as they can be quite enlightening.

Question for you......if a diver has made it perfectly clear that they searched to the point where it is physically impossible to get through, then what good would an ROV be besides additional expense and danger to the divers?

Probably a Google search brought him here. Perhaps he is now a scuba diver too, to better understand what happened / may have happened, what better way than to become a diver?

What should be separate is emotion and facts.

Why can't a tethered RV with lights & a camera be piloted from just before the point where it becomes dangerous?

Or did I miss a post in this story? A three-man team or even a single man with a rebreather could get close enough to deploy a tethered RV hundreds of feet closer inside, past where others have not yet gone.

 

[mike_s]

Probably a Google search brought him here. Perhaps he is now a scuba diver too, to better understand what happened / may have happened, what better way than to become a diver?

What should be separate is emotion and facts.

Why can't a tethered RV with lights & a camera be piloted from just before the point where it becomes dangerous?

Or did I miss a post in this story? A three-man team or even a single man with a rebreather could get close enough to deploy a tethered RV hundreds of feet closer inside, past where others have not yet gone.

They've tried tether'd ROV's with lights and cameras.

the restrictions in the back part of the came are too small for it to go into. From what others who were involved have posted, you're talking about "cracks" that are only 7" or 8" big. only the smallest (and crazy) divers would even try to get through a passage that tight.

It's way too tight for the ROV they used, and they used a small one.


Even if you get it through there, you still have to manage the umbilical in that tight restriction, the outflow currents,silt, etc.



Maybe there is an ROV that is small enough to go in there. But at the same time, most operators(owners) of ROV's don't want to risk loosing their $20k to $500k ROV in a small crack of a cave either.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Probably a Google search brought him here. Perhaps he is now a scuba diver too, to better understand what happened / may have happened, what better way than to become a diver?
I
What should be separate is emotion and facts.

Why can't a tethered RV with lights & a camera be piloted from just before the point where it becomes dangerous?

Or did I miss a post in this story? A three-man
Cteam or even a single man with a rebreather could get close enough to deploy a tethered RV hundreds of feet closer inside, past where others have not yet gone.

You have missed a lot on this story. Go read what was done before making very wild assumptions on what should be done.

 

[gypsyjim]

What should be separate is emotion and facts.

Why can't a tethered RV with lights & a camera be piloted from just before the point where it becomes dangerous?

There is a major difference between "dangerous" and impossible

 

[CaveMD]

I guarantee Ben never made it half as far as Edd went in vortex looking for him. When Edd has to turn his head sideways and exhale to barely squeeze through, I doubt anyone else would have a chance of getting their hand through.

 

[diverdoug1]

I have seen pictures of Ben McDaniel posted on the web. I also have seen Edd a number of times. Just based on body habtus, the possibility of Ben getting through a restriction that Edd could not is about as likely as somone swallowing an inflated basketball.

 

[sararose]

What a great point Jim!

"they died and oh my what a tragedy, so unexpected as they were so experienced. They got what they asked for. But if he were he should have died doing what he did. He would have asked for the outcome. And maybe seeing his body pulled out would have discouraged others from being that stupid"

Ok, so Ben was not an "experienced" diver- I am glad that you feel so inclined to focus and belabor the same brilliant, insightful point- he deserved to die for the mistakes he made. I know that you feel superior to Ben and feel entitled to pass judgement. Congratulations on assuming the thrown, I can only hope that your maker will judge you just as harshly.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Not superior but smarter and more aware of my limitations. I'd also not say he "was not an experienced diver" but rather IS NOT an experienced diver as I for one do not believe he is dead. And if he is, it's not in that cave. I also am not assuming anything that anyone has tossed or thrown.

Your first post on here is to defend the indefensible. That people assumed he took action at Vortex put the lives of many at risk in their search for him. And lo and behold he was not found! By some of the best in the business. If you choose to come on and criticize my observations that appear to offend you at least have the courage to identify yourself as I do. I do not hide behind an internet handle.

And as long as divers feel tempted to emulate risky or downright stupid behavior they are not experienced enough or trained for, I will belabor the point that engaging in such behavior will kill them and they did indeed ask for that outcome.

And if I believed that I had a "maker" I'm sure he'd be happy that I did my part to prevent others from going to their death needlessly.

 

[karstdvr]

What would you do? Are you saying you would just walk away if your son had been seen going into the cave and wasn't reported missing for two days and you would give up on him? We will never, i repeat, never give up on finding his body!!

Mr McDaniel
I can understand your point,you and actually others on this forum would like closure too. I can empathize,although I haven't lost a son,but I have been in this sport over 16 years and have lost quite a few close friends. The pity is that I have been involved in my friend's accident analysis discussions,and even though they were very experienced divers,I have had to accept that they screwed up miserably,and their demise was surely preventable. I understand your need to find something that will close this case,but I plead with you to not tempt others into doing a search with money etc. This is an advanced level cave dive that is very unforgiving,and has seen the best in the sport make an attempt to locate Ben. One of our basic tenants in losing a buddy is search until the last possible moment,but don't cause a second victim-my concern is someone looking for money or glory will be a second victim,which at the end of the day will make you and the community feel worse. Good luck in your quest for closure.

 

[BDSC]

Ok, so Ben was not an "experienced" diver- I am glad that you feel so inclined to focus and belabor the same brilliant, insightful point- he deserved to die for the mistakes he made. I know that you feel superior to Ben and feel entitled to pass judgement. Congratulations on assuming the thrown, I can only hope that your maker will judge you just as harshly.

Is that you Ben?