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Attaching the crotch strap to the strappy side of the waist belt?

Discussion in 'Hogarthian Diving' started by roydude, Jul 11, 2015.

  1. roydude

    roydude Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Scotland
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    Just wanted to throw this out there and see what the more experienced have to say on this matter:

    For years now I've attached my crotch strap on the 'buckle' side of the waist belt like this:

    http://www.baue.org/images/equip/crotchlength.jpg

    Since I'm a PADI instructor I also find wearing a weight belt a handy habit. I wear it under the crotch strap (because it's more comfortable, it can't be dropped by accident and I have a pinch clip on the crotch strap) - in the buddy drill I explain that to ditch my weight, simply pinch the clip then open the weight belt as normal.

    During a buddy check the other day someone asked me why I don't just attach the crotch strap on the strappy side of my waist belt instead (the buckle would need to be to the left of my center to make this possible). If I did, then to ditch my weight you just have to pull open the waist belt then the weight belt (which is basically the same motion just performed twice - possibly a better solution for a stressed rescuer).
    Once the waist and weight belts have been opened, the ditched weight would just pull the crotch strap off the waist band and be free to fall away.

    In a nutshell, my question is: is there an advantage to having the waist belt set up with the buckle to the right so that the crotch strap attaches to the buckled section of the belt? Seems like it might make a quicker rescue the other way.

    (Hope that all makes sense!)
     
    the_dragon_no1 likes this.
  2. lowviz

    lowviz Solo Diver ScubaBoard Supporter

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    Yes, it does.

    Try mounting your waist belt buckle upside down and centered under the crotch strap loop. Now you have left-pull and right-pull. Your weight belt is exactly as it is supposed to be. Can't mistake one for the other, could be embarrassing if all you want to do is snug up your waist belt.

    And now for the logical inconsistency: Your weight belt is under your harness, as it should be. Something one just has to get used to...
     
  3. dumpsterDiver

    dumpsterDiver Banned

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    That is how I run a crotch strap (when i use one). I have a fastex pinch clip AND I would always run the loop on the belt side - not over the buckle. to do otherwise just seems ridiculous to me- expecially if I want to get out of the rig fast. I was surprised to learn that the standard way is to loop past the buckle.

    Is the over the buckle method have something to do with carry a light on the belt in caves or something?
     
  4. spectrum

    spectrum Dive Bum Wannabe ScubaBoard Supporter

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    There is a fundamental conflict with regard to retaining the weight belt with anything other than its own buckle. Long term teachings say that nothing should inhibit release. Keep in mind that this originated in the pre SPG days when intuition and a J valve (that may be unknowingly been tripped) were your assurance of ending the dive alive. Blow and go wasn't just a theoretical exercise.

    Today many are of the feeling that that greater risk is the inadvertent loss of a weight system that could have you ascend dangerously fast and perhaps violate a deco requirement. With that sentiment they are eager to add a layer of capture for the weight system. With near universal use of the SPG and dive computers that can contribute to gas management a decent argument can be made that the act of dropping weights can be a little more complex than in the past. As the OP mentioned anything out of the ordinary really needs to be in the pre-dive discussion / buddy check to make it viable, unless solo.

    Before messing with the formula this is something any diver needs to consider with their eyes wide open. I agree that it's not a black and white situation. Like most things in diving it needs to be an individual, situation dependent choice.

    In addition to the ideas mentioned there 2 that I have used over time.

    1) Fit the crotch strap with a loop and run it around the tail end of the weight belt. If you have the right hips and fit it actually works pretty well. If you do release the weight belt the crotch strap slips off of the tail and away the weights go. If your weight belt does not marry to you this is not for you.

    2) Just use a weight harness (like a DUI W&T) This eliminates the conflict by moving the release to the sides and it allows for an easy partial release. This can be messy with some jacket BCs that may want to overlap the weight pockets.

    I have also used the Fastex crotch strap release positioned just above the weight belt, threaded over and under the weight belt.

    Pay your money, take your choice.

    Pete
     
  5. TSandM

    TSandM Missed and loved by many. Rest in Peace

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    Well, in the ten years I've been diving, I've had a weight belt buckle open itself once, and when I switched to metal buckles, that hasn't happened again. However, I HAVE had my waist strap buckle come undone, especially when jumping into the water. Having the buckle through the crotch strap means you don't lose the crotch strap, and the rig doesn't end up around your ears. This makes refastening it trivial. This is also useful if you discover, after you are in the water, that your light cord is caught under your waist belt, and you have to take it apart to fix the problem.

    I thought about this for a while, because putting the buckle through the crotch strap loop is sometimes a PITA, but I concluded there are advantages to running it that way. (BTW, I wear my weight belt under the harness and don't worry about it.)
     
  6. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

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    The crotch strap goes on the "buckle" side because the waist strap buckle is supposed to be over to the right. Done properly, the buckle secures the canister light on the right side so you don't need a second buckle doing that. The weight belt goes over the crotch strap and south of the waist belt. Otherwise the crotch strap interferes with release of the weight belt.

    If you're concerned about preventing release of the weight belt, put your weights somewhere else and don't wear a weight belt. You can't teach a PADI class in a Hogarthian rig anyway. (Frankly I kind of wonder at kind of training you have if you're trying to do this...)

    All of this is described in great detail on GUE's site and numerous hogarthian manuals. The positioning and rationale could not be clearer.
     
    Tony387 likes this.
  7. Patoux01

    Patoux01 Solo Diver

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    Wait what?
     
  8. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
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    Huh? Last time I looked PADI required things like snorkels, it wouldn't allow instructors to use the long hose, and primary-donate was forbidden. As I recall there were all sorts of other configuration issues but those were the big ones. Have the rules changed?
     
  9. roydude

    roydude Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Scotland
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    I'm not using long hoses. I am using a harness. I've been teaching with it in 5 different countries for the last 4 years with no issues, with the weight belt under the crotch strap ... again with no issues (in fact, both have been greatly beneficial during OW courses, but maybe all this is some chat for another thread).

    I also don't have a light canister so the buckle being on the right doesn't make so much difference to me as far as that's concerned.

    Before I get yelled at about posting this on the Hogarthian thread, it was deliberate since you guys know a lot about the rationale behind certain harness configurations so I just figured I'd ask the experts :wink:
     
  10. djcheburashka

    djcheburashka Manta Ray

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: San Francisco, CA
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    Well then you already know the answer is, which is that you aren't in a hogarthian configuration to begin with, so none of the advice you've gotten applies. The different parts of the configuration are designed to work with each other. If you toss half of it out, then the rationales for the rest won't make sense.
     
    rjack321 likes this.

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