Bad Gear or Bad Luck

[dlofting]

I'm going with bad gear, not bad luck. So many people love their HOG because it's cheap. Hey I like cheap too. Unfortunately as I always suspected, it's cheap for a reason. After bad experiences, I stuck with my major brands. And yes, I'm biased because I had bad experiences, but I also went in with very high hopes and an open mind. The funny thing is I still hear people at dive site who love HOG say stuff like, "I love my reg, you just have to tighten the top with an allen wrench from time to time because the IP creeps." Literally what a guy told us two weekends ago. Oddly enough, that crap doesn't happen with any of my not cheap regs. There's tons of posts about similar issues all over the forums.

This post would be a lot more helpful if you could:

1) provide details of your bad experiences
2) elaborate on the IP creep, including the number of people who experienced the issue an how the allen wrench adjustment solved the problem (if only temporarily)
3) some examples of other posts with similar issues

Thanks

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I have only had one of mine start to creep. It was 21 months old and had over 150 dives on it. Used for doubles and singles diving until I got more regs that allowed me to dedicate regs for each type of diving. It needed a regular service. Simple, not unexpected, and a rebuild fixed it. If you are hearing stuff like that at a dive site I'd suggest staying away from someone like that. Tells me they are not bothering to get a reg serviced that obviously needs it. So what else are they neglecting that could cause problems for them, and possibly you, if you're diving with them?

I now personally own six HOG 1sts and eight seconds. I have also had my Oceanic's, Sherwoods, and a ScubaPro have different little issues that were simply an indication that they needed a scheduled or perhaps unscheduled (like 15 months instead of a year. I wasn't diving it and it sat until I could get to it as kits were hard to get since divers are not supposed to be buying them - ScubaPro) service or rebuild.

It's called maintaining one's gear. I do my own. O rings, seats, diaphragms, etc are consumables. No getting around it. Even with the best quality control there is no way to guarantee every seat that comes off of an assembly line will last the entire two years. Or every diaphragm or oring.

Can't be done. Because it is designed for a finite amount of uses. Some will never approach that and a seat may last ten years. Not impossible. Someone who does 200 or more dives a year may see the need to replace it every year or perhaps more frequently. That's with any brand. Some mfg's specify a year or 100 dives or 2 years and 200 dives. But none can guarantee those numbers. A seat or o ring is a soft item. Someone who is just ignoring the signs that it needs replaced and the reg serviced is asking for a failure.

Saying "I love my reg, you just have to tighten the top with an allen wrench from time to time because the IP creeps." is actually saying my reg needs serviced but I'm not going to bother with it. Not that the reg is bad. And may also be an indication that they have no idea what they are doing to the reg every time they "tighten it with an allen wrench". Not people I want to be diving with.

I not only dive the regs but sell and service them. People that do or have the annual inspection done and the scheduled two year rebuild rarely have problems. Some will evne with these measures. But that is also dependent on what they do with or to them in between. I had a reg in for service over the summer that a customer bought used. Was not supposed to be very old. On the outside it looked pretty good. But he reported it was not breathing well when he first hooked it up so he sent it to me. I checked the IP and it was creeping. Starting at 150 psi and going up. Shut it down and opened it up. It was immediately obvious that the reg had been flooded. The previous owner never indicated that he/she flooded it somehow and allowed it to set or just did a "put it on a tank and purge it deal".

Of course the reg was bad. But not because it was a HOG or because it was cheap. It was bad because the owner flooded it and then didn't bother to get it serviced. They just sold it. Nice move. Fortunately the new owner saw a problem and took the right approach. And he now has a like new, working reg. It is not nor was it bad. It was improperly cared for.

 

[Chilly_Dipper]

I'm going with bad gear, not bad luck. So many people love their HOG because it's cheap. Hey I like cheap too. Unfortunately as I always suspected, it's cheap for a reason. After bad experiences, I stuck with my major brands. And yes, I'm biased because I had bad experiences, but I also went in with very high hopes and an open mind. The funny thing is I still hear people at dive site who love HOG say stuff like, "I love my reg, you just have to tighten the top with an allen wrench from time to time because the IP creeps." Literally what a guy told us two weekends ago. Oddly enough, that crap doesn't happen with any of my not cheap regs. There's tons of posts about similar issues all over the forums.

All regulators have IP creep that's what annual maintenance and tuning is for. I'm going to guess your 'not cheap regs' insist you have them serviced every year in order to maintain your warranty on them, hence the reason you've never witnessed it. While many of the people who dive HOG service there own gear (one of the many reasons I have HOG regs is the no BS around getting parts for them) and tend not to fix things that are not broken.

The reason HOG gear is cheaper is simply because it doesn't have a big blue H emblazoned on it, or the right 3 letters. Basically it's cheaper because it doesn't have the cult of personality that certain brands have gone out of their way to engender.

And seeing as I'm a forum troll would you care to post the links with these poor reviews of HOG regs? I did allot of research before buying mine and the only thing I got out of the 'bad' reviews was 'They aren't X brand regs so they will get you killed', and if you buy that line I got a nice bridge in New York I think might be interested in.

 

[Mitchell Teeters]

Sadly more often then not when people are called on this stuff they disappear into the wood work.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[NCadiver]

That why unqualified people should not be servicing their gear, you get all these people saying you can service your hog yourself but Hog/Edge say you can service your gear after you have taken the service course. But there are a bunch disreputable dive shops out there after that quick buck and that they will sell the parts to anyone off the street. On a side note if short cut like that are taking place how far up the chain does it go up?

There is a certain instructor on this board from reports does a good job for the service class but he get a small attendance unlike the major manufacture who class are always full. Why does it seem like everybodyto want to service their on regulator but very few show up for the class.

The reason HOG gear is cheaper is simply because it doesn't have a big blue H emblazoned on it, or the right 3 letters. Basically it's cheaper because it doesn't have the cult of personality that certain brands have gone out of their way to engender.

Hog is made in china I believe by ODS. Atomic, Aqualung, Zeagle, Oceanic are made in the USA and Apex is made in England and the pound is worth more than the dollar.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I would be very careful using terms like "disreputable" to describe businesses that are selling a product that they are permitted to by the manufacturer as there are more than few of them. Some who may have very good lawyers. Hiding behind an avatar is no protection from action to rectify slanderous and possibly damaging words.

As for attendance at classes. The classes are not cheap. Many mfg classes are attended by people sponsored by shops. And some are required to attend by the mfg.

How many mfg's do you know that will provide a private class to an individual diver? I will. Often at a time that meets their schedule as opposed to making them attend a show to do it. Just because we don't announce every time a class is held does it mean few are taking them.

I know how many instructors there are worldwide who can teach the class. I know roughly how many divers did take it up until about a month ago. Divers are taking the class. You hear about attendance at other mfg clinics because the mfg wants you to know.

In this case the manufacturer does not offer the class. The instructors authorized to teach it do. Through our respective forward thinking and diver centered agency's that sanction it. At our convenience and on our schedule. Not HOG's.

 

[Joe Bailey]

Well said Jim, I just recently did the class to become an instructor for this class I've serviced countless HOG regs including my 5. I've never had an issue with my regs that wasn't deserved (draging my pony reg through the mud). As an instructor my D2 that I use for my singles set up gets serviced a little more often than the others. But nobody can accuse the guys at edge/hog of poor customer service. In my experience if a customer has an issue with a piece of gear, they will do anything to remedy the problem even replace something. They have improved the materials used and the workmanship in the manufacturing process over time. In the world of SCUBA diving EDGE is a relatively new company and the last thing they want is bad gear in the field tarnishing their name.

I will continue to support edge/hog in the future if for no other reason, if I have a problem a phone call or an e-mail is all it takes to fix it.

 

[NCadiver]

This is what edge/hog said: EDGE/HOG does NOT sell parts to end users. EDGE and HOG dealers are permitted to sell parts. EDGE /HOG recommends that parts are only sold to those with formal training in regulator repair.

Jim I think you misunderstood me if they have the training selling of the parts are fine. On your post 22 would you want that guy buying parts and servicing his own gear? I think not.

I do know a few that will give a private service class and they have.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Selling parts to someone does not mean they are "disreputable". The diver may have a tech willing and able to service it near them that they want to use. It is not up to the dealer to determine that. Hence the fact that myself, DRIS, TDL, Pirahna, etc have them available for them to buy. I trust that the people that buy them are smart enough to make the decision for themselves. Not play nanny to them.

Calling us disreputable is repugnant and unfair. As well as totally false.

And by the way dealers for ScubaPro, Oceanic, Aqualung, and other brands will sell kits to divers as well. But they are not authorized to. I know this because I have bought them and except for Oceanic am not an authorized tech for those lines. I don't consider them disreputable either. But I guess others would for treating me like an informed, intelligent, and capable individual. Again unfair, repugnant, and a lie.

They are just doing business.

 

[cerich]

Hog is made in Taiwan. Atomic, some Oceanic are made in the USA .

Fixed it for ya. You had some things wrong....

---------- Post added March 1st, 2013 at 03:16 PM ----------

I do know a few that will give a private service class and they have.

Know what? the fact that you seem to dislike my business model and make snide comments regarding the source of my gear is funny as heck.

Let me tell you why. You see, earlier you listed where stuff is made, some you identified as made in the US, some of those even say they are US made when in fact they aren't. They LIED to you, their dealers and the consumer.

Why do brands offer a private class to some and not everyone? Why do they tell their dealers only dealers can attend and then offer private classes?

So basically you are swallowing whole lies and holding them up as some kind of standard while slamming me for being upfront and treating divers and my dealers with respect. That's funny.