Basic rules broken become near miss

[rjack321]

Normalization of deviance.....

This would require an understanding of what normal is and then a series of dives progressively pushing those boundaries without incident until, *bang* the gradual violations of established practices catches up with him.

The OP doesn't have enough dives or experience to do this.

 

[uwxplorer]

to read or re-read:
“Slow down young fella” — Attitudes in Technical Diving - SDI | TDI | ERDI | PFI

 

[Yeason]

I would say that the dive plan wasn't as terrible as people think, but I am also admitting that it wasn't as good as it could have been. And actually you all are clearly pointing out another rule I failed to mention in my initial list which is "plan your dive, dive your plan". I made a mistake in this respect which is in fact what took the equipment issue from annoying or risky to dangerous.

Note that I more upset by the instructor's greed than by the diver's ignorance, but this needs serious soul searching by both.

My instructor was actually very reluctant and wouldn't take me on the course until I demonstrated sufficient skill. By no means was he greedy and was quite clear up front that he would 'fail' me if I didn't meet the performance requirements.

I messed up, this doesn't mean that I'm not still capable of performing any of the skills or tasks that have been talked about. To be fair you don't know me or my approach to diving, you only know about that one time I really messed up. On this dive I did get complacent, I broke basic rules, and as a result I have taken a step back to reflect and improve my approach.

 

[EireDiver606]

@Yeason
Don’t just look at the negatives of what you did or didn’t do, you need to look at the positives also. After a situation like this, you need to reflect on everything, learn from what went wrong and confide in what you did well and how you reacted to build up your confidence so that you can dive safely and confidently again.

We need to create a better safety culture in diving and a part of this is not blaming or harshly criticising without any real input. After near misses, people are already extremely critical of themselves, you are doing them a disfavour if you do this.

To learn, we must reflect, to reflect, we must allow people to be in a situation to feel comfortable sharing their incidents.
Well done to @Yeason for being open about it and let’s see more posts like this.

 

[saxman242]

To be fair you don't know me or my approach to diving, you only know about that one time I really messed up.

It's very easy to take criticism personally, particularly when it starts to poke at problems other than what you personally identified as the problem. I'm sure I would do the same thing if I had posted this thread.

With that said, many of the questions/comments that have been made here have been in efforts to understand your approach to diving and to look beyond the one time you really messed up. Use this as an opportunity to be introspective.

Perhaps a conversation to be had beyond just the comments of "you're rushing into things" or "you don't know what you don't know" would be to look at aspects of your dive plan and debate why things that you think are normal plan details aren't thought of the same by others. Is that a difference in training? If so, why? Is that a difference in personal risk adversion? If so, is that appropriate?

Now, I haven't been through trimix training and I'm not an instructor, so you have more training than me. With that said, a dive plan of going 40 m, into deco, on a single cylinder (albeit with redundant regs) isn't consistent with the training that I have had. Is that consistent with the training you have had?

 

[Marie13]

This would require an understanding of what normal is and then a series of dives progressively pushing those boundaries without incident until, *bang* the gradual violations of established practices catches up with him.

The OP doesn't have enough dives or experience to do this.

I don’t think you really have to have experience to figure out what the OP did was not a good idea. Just common sense. I’m still on the classroom part of my tech class and waiting for the stupid plague to let up enough so we can get wet at the local quarry. But with no tech diving experience under my belt, I can still see that what he did wasn’t a good idea. Maybe it’s because gals tend to be more cautious and tend to not push their limits. Maybe I’m just naturally cautious. But damn! He got lucky. It was pounded into me that any big gear changes get wet on a shallow quarry dive first before I take it on the big lake.

 

[ajtoady]

I'll apologize if this has been said as I did not take the time to read all the posts,,,Hindsight is usually 20/20! That being said, any and all that dive with me or I have dived with,,anyone can abort for any reason without question! We can always dive another day. I impress this with all that I dive with and Hopefully it registers!! Thankfully you survived without issue and learned from the ,,I did not feel right,,, experience. Pay it forward and impress it upon others.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

No not at all! Nor is a single tank appropriate by any means on a planned deco dive, not matter how short the planned deco!


Pray your buddy - if you have one - has enough air to share, otherwise your SOL.



Depends on how much deeper, and the equipment you use (I was fortunate enough to always use top of the line breathing equipment, i.e. regulators). I can't speak for others, but I and many other people I dived with for over 30 years had no problem with exceeding these so-called 'limits'. But they were very experienced, repeat very experienced, divers well exceeding that 30m 'limit' on air.


Good advice to the general diving population, and something that we all at least should be aware of, especially when on CCR's. (And no, on CCR I had no reason to use air deeper than 30m, so I didnt, but often, in some places around the world they did not have helium, so then I certainly did on OC).


When I was doing it there were no such 'recommendations' for a start. But, personally, I habitually exceeded these so-called 'limits' over the years and never had the problems now being associated with same. That does not say they don't exits at some point though! And of course, before someone chimes in - as they will - and says "just cause I 'got away with it / deviated from the norm' does not mean it's OK", then by all means your welcome to that opinion. I am not trying to convince anyone to dive deeper than 30m on air, if that's what they believe is the line in the sand (er, water) then stick with it! But after all, as some would have you believe, one shoe (or fin / 'flipper') actually does not fit all, AFAICT.


Very little! For a start, he knows way more than I ever will on gas physiology, nor would I counter his advice to the diving public. Simon and I know each other personally - as a matter of fact, I taught him his civilian CCR course - and back in the day we dived off and on together (photo below shows him coming off an 80m deep small trawler wreck off Brisbane circa early 2000's IIRC).

But make no mistake, I am not recommending here you or anyone else does it (i.e. dive deeper than 30m on air), but you asked a series of questions and I gave truthful answers from my own experience / perspective is all. And none of what I say above is meant in any way as disrespectful to Simon (aka Dr Mitchell) or his colleagues in developing said 30m recommendation.

HTH.

View attachment 579448

Hey, just wanted to say thanks for responding with such an extensive/detailed answers.

I will confess that I used to make fun of the GUE folks for switching to trimix at 30 meters. But then the science does back their practice, so if one of them prepares a recipe for crow, I better hope to be REALLY hungry when I get served that dish.

A lot of gas decisions, for me at least, come down to risk management. Do I have a bounce dive to 40 meters for a super simple task in ideal conditions? I'll be guilty of normalization of deviance in that case. Would I repeat a dive to 55 meters again on air where I could feel how impaired I was, and one of my buddies was like a cat watching my light when I was signaling "are you okay?". He never responded. I thumbed the dive, the other buddy said no, so we continued onto our objective. I never dived with those guys again. Can't ignore the thumbing of a dive, despite the objective (Warren wreck in Lake Crescent, Washington state) being so close.

If I understand Dr. Mitchell's advice is based upon, if things go bad, and you have to exert yourself, the narcosis from the increased CO2 at a much higher partial pressure may be the difference in handling that emergency and surviving versus being unable and not surviving.

I've taken a big step back in what level of risk I'm willing to take after having a wife and child.

I can understand that many long time divers will rely more on their experience of dives without issues than the science and accept "well, that experience doesn't matter if something happens." It is human nature to resist change.

So I keep my dives more shallow now, but I can understand that people won't. I just wish training agencies would catch up with the science, but then they'd have one less course to sell, and that revenue isn't something agencies will readily give up.

Kosta

 

[Yeason]

Thank you @EireDiver606 this was the point in sharing this despite feeling quite an amount of shame.

I have considered many of the things I did right during the dive. I was very cognizant of my air, I knew I was in trouble and made sure to monitor myself and signal my lead. I recognized the feelings of panic and stayed rational knowing that freaking out would create more problems. As soon as I realized I was having a serious problem I signaled to the dive lead rather than trying to hide my mistake. I communicated with the group which was why I was able to gain some weights which made holding my deco stop easier.

Some background for those that are looking at the dive planning. It's an unfortunate fact that in the area I was diving in these types of dives are common, it's something I am glad to move away from. They tend to push limits and engage in more risky diving. There was a plan, but it was not a proper tech plan. As it was something I 'grew up with' in the sense that I learned diving there it's something I am growing away from. It's not right, but that'spart of why I made the poor decision to engage in this dive. This dive will be a turning point for me.

@ajtoady This is why I have always been a fan of the phrase "Any diver may call any dive at any time for any reason". I failed to do so and looking back realize that I should have.

 

[Marie13]

@Yeason

Were you trained to do these dives single tank or with doubles of some sort? Why no deco bottle?