BCD Style, back inflated vs. vest

[Mick]

I hear alot of talk about the Zeagle Ranger on this forum.
I dont hear anything about this BC in Australia so I am curious. I am a newbie and I would like to know if this is an appropriate BC for me? Would I have trouble using it, or is it wasting my money? I wouldnt want to spend good money on a BC to find out that it is no good for tech diving should I choose to take diving to the next level.


PS. I have booked in for my course and will have my certificate in 3 weeks time ! Woooooo Hoooooo

 

[Warhammer]

I own a Zeagle Ranger and absolutely love it. The only compliant I have about it is that it holds lots of water. So when I board a boat, it's a little on the heavy side and the water flows out like a river. Well it's not quiet that bad, but you get the picture. Now as far as using it as a Tech diving BC, it does have some tech capabilities such as supporting double tanks, upgradeable bladders, add-on pockets and such. But I'd say you'd be better off with a good Backplate/wing/harness setup if that's in your immediate future.

 

[Mario S Caner]

Warhammer,
It's fairly common to get water into your B.C. during a dive. It's the result of keeping the dump on your deflator open too long. Perhaps you may need a couple of more pounds of weight, so you don't feel the need to try to "over dump" it.

 

[Warhammer]

Mario, I think you misunderstood, and perhaps I didn't fully explain it. The problem isn't that I get water inside the bladder. I rarely get much, if any, inside the bladder. The Ranger has a plastic bladder that is contained within a ballistic nylon backpack or bag, you could call it. The water gets inside the bag but not inside the bladder. It has 2 grommeted holes in the bottom that it drains from when you get out of the water, but it takes 30 seconds or so to drain. Course if you inflate your BC at the surface it will force this water out and you wouldn't notice it. But when I boat dive, I rarely add any air to my BC when I get to the surface, and it's usually completely empty of air. The reason I don't is that I usually come up directly at the ladder after it's clear of other divers, so I just grab the ladder, take my fins off, and get out of the water. No need to get positive at the surface. The boat captain on my trip last weekend commented that he loved the Rangers but everytime he has divers that use them, the Gulf drops 2" when they exit the water, LOL.

 

[turnerjd]

Hiya all.

Many moons ago I learned using a jacket style BCD, and found this purfect in basic diving, especially in the position it puts me at the surface. Now, as my rig evolves I need some more lift from my jacket (twin steel 300Bar (4500PSI) 10L tanks are HEAVY, and very negative).

Fundamentally I LIKE my old Scubapro Master jacket. It is comfortable, takes a twinset or single tank, and puts me in the correct position. Whilst I do a lot of DM ing I want to keep this jacket as my main jacket, and do the minimum extra changes for when I go diving for pleasure. Important for me with open water students is the position I am in at the surface.

The Solution?

A UK company (AP Valves) in their Buddy line of BCD's do what is called the 'Redwing' - Redundant Wing - most BC's have the inflator over the left shoulder, this has two identical mountings on the case, one above each shoulder - one for the inflator, and the other for the overpressure valve - just put them on the side you want!

This fits between the back of the jacket fabric, and the front of the plastic tank rest. 15 minutes with a spanner, and the new bladder was fitted. Now I have over my right shoulder the wing inflator, and the left shoulder the jacket inflator.

For a lot of people a jacket style is all you need, the vast majority have adequate lift, and they put you in a good position on the surface, and a position that is not too bad under water. Also, thay are generally quite a bit cheeper than the tech style wings setups.

Wings (imo) are a more advanced setup. once you start doing more advanced divin, perhaps using twin tanks, you start to want the air in different places. A lot of wing systems come in a modular system, so that you can choose the bits you want for what you are doing - this needs quite a bit of experience before you know exactly what diving you are doing,a and have built up the majority of your other kit.

My redundant wing set me back about £140 ($220), and my BCD about £350 ($560), but I didn't buy them at the same time - it was probably 4 years after I got the jacket that I then added the wings.

Your kit evolves as your diving habits evolve post qualification. My setup works for me, but my better half, having used my combined setup, now has a wing style BCD, but has less lift than me, and also ends up face down in the water at the surface, something that I don't like about wings only.

Try both systems, and see what you like. Remember, out in the sea you will get more water on your face at the surface than in the pool, so if you find it 'just acceptable' on the surface of the pool, unless the sea is mirror flat, it will be noticibly worce out in the waves.

Remember, for much less than the cost of a new jacket, you can get wings added to your jacket (provided you initially buy a jacket on which you can unbolt the backplate - jacket - tank rest sandwitch). Provided all the holes are in roughly the right place, you can mix and match brands as well.

.02 as always

Jon T

Edit 14/2 3:35 PM CET
Looked at the AP valves web page, the new version of the redwing has one, central hose now, rather than the two interchangeable positions. A backward step IMO

 

[Walter]

..........some say wings produce less drag, but that's not necessarily true. Bladerless BC's produce less drag, jacket or wing. Others say jackets squeeze you when inflated. That is true only if you make two mistakes. Mistake #1 buckling the chest strap. The chest strap is not necessary nor desired. I have no idea why it is included in the design. I cut mine off in the mid 80's. Mistake #2 Overinflating your BC. OK, there are some times when you might want (rarely) to inflate a BC to it's limit, but if the chest strap isn't buckled, it still won't squeeze you.

I dive doubles about 90% of the time, I use the Scubapro jacket BC I purchased in 1983. They now sell a similiar BC they call the Classic. To me, it's still the best BC around, no drag simple design and very comfortable.

WWW™

 

[DocVikingo]

Hi Frank,

Looks like you've gotten lots of good advice, and I'm kind of late of the off line here, but the following my nonetheless prove useful in summing things up:

The "Ask RSD" column of the Jan/Feb 2000 issue of "Rodale's Scuba Diving" magazine. In case you do not have access to this edition, here's an edited version from my files.

"Back inflated BCs contain air bladders or cells toward the back, rather than toward the front of the torso as in jacket style BCs. This design is more common in high end, technical diving BCs rather than in the generally less sturdy, lighter weight, simpler and less expensive jacket style BCs favored by many warm water recreational divers, although several manufactures do offer back inflated "sport" models. As with all dive gear, you should purchase that BC which fits your diving situation, safety and comfort needs, and budget. Comparing back inflated BCs to jacket style BCs:

Pros: (1) Float the diver in a more aerodynamic position underwater; horizontal with head just slightly higher than feet; (2) Can offer far greater lift capacity, a decided plus for divers who wear lots of weight to submerge, or use large, multiple or heavy cylinders; (3) Many have interchangeable air cells so that you can alter lift capacity to meet changing dive situations; (4) Eliminate the chest squeeze which some find uncomfortable and which can contribute to diver panic; (5) Clear the chest area allowing freer movement and easier access to gear; (6) More often offer a weight integration option with those attendant advantages when used correctly; and (7) Tend to better fit larger physiques and those of unusual proportion.

Cons: (1) Tend to force the face into the water when floating on the surface; (2) Tend to be heavier and have hard pack cylinder mounting plates, making carrying and packing more difficult; (3) Can be a little more difficult to vent; (4) Absence of appreciable chest squeeze can make achieving neutral buoyancy a little more difficult, especially initially; and (4) Can cost from somewhat less to a very great deal more.

Of the cons, having one's head pushed toward the water while on surface understandably causes the most distress to divers, especially those who have not tried or had much experience with back inflated BCs. There are actually a number of ways of dealing with this, possibly the simplest being not overinflating the BC and flipping over and swimming on one's back when on the surface. This has the additional advantage of providing a better field of view and placing the fins in a more effective kicking position. One can also add weights to the rear pockets, cylinder, ankles and other locations, as well as make certain adjustments to the ride of the BC, to compensate for this forward push.

Among back inflated BCs are the DiveRite Transpac, Halcyon, Zeagle Ranger/Tech/Concept, Sea Quest Balance, Oceanic Chute, Aqua Lung Alcyone, Scubapro SeaHawk/Falcon and OMS models.

The BC is a very important piece of gear, and a good one is a substantial investment. After carefully determining your needs and desires, you should research available models to see which best fit your situation, and then actually try out as many as possible."

Hope this gets you started.

DocVikingo