BHB collection/protection discussion

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Who says recreational collectors, photographers, silt kicking students and hook and line fisherman can't all enjoy the place (as has occured there for many years)? :confused:

Is Dan having a party? :D

Has anyone been able to get anything in writing which appears to supersede the information which I was given indicating that collection of tropicals etc. is allowed?

As for "absolute dicks" is that what you categorize all the hook and line fisherman who attempt to "take species" from the site? Since you have never been there, are you aware that this area is designated as a hook and line fishing area? Cleaning tables with running water and a specially designated fishing pier are all sited at this exact location.

So your response is...Everyone else is doing it, why can't I? Maybe others have done it for years, so what? Does that make it ok? NO! Imagine how much cooler that place would be if people hadn't taken from it?

As for the dicks, I highly doubt hook and line fishermen are taking seahorses and tropicals. I suspect they are looking for food, not some prize for their aquarium. It takes a real big man to go hunting with tupperware!
 
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Most people don't dive there to see snapper/grunts/sheepshead/barracuda....which is about all you'll catch there most of the year...with the addition of the out-of-season snook in the summer. I've fished there several times and have seen what fish actually get caught. Also, the fishing really isn't that great there, which is why you don't see the fishing pier loaded with people like you do at other spots where you catch a lot more fish. If the fishing was good there, I am sure I'd probably fish there a lot more than I dive there, and that in general there would be a lot stronger issue with fishermen vs. divers.

To state the blatently obvious, people dive there to see the tropicals, which are the same fish the collectors are after.

Repetitive referral to the fishermen using the park is a distractionary tactic which implies that there isn't a strong argument in support of allowing collection at the park.

DD, maybe you could explain what kind of tropicals you like to collect, how often, how long they live in your tank at home, to let the divers learn more about your interests instead of simply saying (paraphrasing here) "you can't stop me!" You know....communicate rather than incite hostility....Just think, if you said "I like to get a seargent major here and there a couple times a year" people might just chill out a bit, instead of assuming you are after their prized seahorses, jawfish, or other rare exotic critter, etc.
 
I'm not so selfish to think that what I do is directly relevant to the situation. I can confirm that I am not a commercial collector and obey all the applicable laws when I "take species".

I seem to sense an extreme prejudice from some people against law abiding citizens who exercise their rights and choose to engage in certain recreational activities that are apparently afforded specific protection under the Florida Statutes. I keep repeating, I simply don't want to see more laws against recreational dive activities..like collection at this location.

Are you guys opening up an underwater chapter of PETA or something? :D

Has anyone been able to generate a written response from the County which would serve to clarify the situation?
 
So your response is...Everyone else is doing it, why can't I? Maybe others have done it for years, so what? Does that make it ok? NO! Imagine how much cooler that place would be if people hadn't taken from it?

As for the dicks, I highly doubt hook and line fishermen are taking seahorses and tropicals. I suspect they are looking for food, not some prize for their aquarium. It takes a real big man to go hunting with tupperware!

We are a nation of laws; if it is not unlawful then those who live in the area should lobby their lawmakers to make it so. (There is discussion on this)

As the laws are unclear at this point someone local should take the initiative to get some clarification.
 
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DD, maybe you could explain what kind of tropicals you like to collect, how often, how long they live in your tank at home, to let the divers learn more about your interests instead of simply saying (paraphrasing here) "you can't stop me!"....

I have a 150 gallon tank and a 20 gallon quarantine tank for about three years now. I usually collect one, maybe two critters at anyone time because they have to spend at least 21 days in the QT. According the the local fish store, that is the life cycle of most protozoan parasites. I look for small fish like cardinal fish, harlequin bass, juvi spanishhogfish, flounders, gobies, banded coralshrimp and the occasional arrowcrab. I will usually keep an animal for awhile (over 6 months) and trade them with other aquarium enthusiasts. Anyone who is serious about collecting wild critters knows that, to do it correctly, you can only take 1 or 2 fish at a time. I restate that if I ever found a legal lobster at the bridge, I'm keeping it!
 
I'm not so selfish to think that what I do is directly relevant to the situation. I can confirm that I am not a commercial collector and obey all the applicable laws when I "take species".

I seem to sense an extreme prejudice from some people against law abiding citizens who exercise their rights and choose to engage in certain recreational activities that are apparently afforded specific protection under the Florida Statutes. I keep repeating, I simply don't want to see more laws against recreational dive activities..like collection at this location.

Are you guys opening up an underwater chapter of PETA or something? :D

Has anyone been able to generate a written response from the County which would serve to clarify the situation?

I think what you are seeing is a growing segment of divers that has become aware that the LAW needs to change. If the law was allowing pedophiles to hang out in playgrounds, most of us would decide the law needed changing--even if DD decided it was their god given right to be there.
Lobbying groups were responsible for the statutes, and lobbying groups can change this.
 
I think what you are seeing is a growing segment of divers that has become aware that the LAW needs to change. If the law was allowing pedophiles to hang out in playgrounds, most of us would decide the law needed changing--even if DD decided it was their god given right to be there.
Lobbying groups were responsible for the statutes, and lobbying groups can change this.

Are pedophiles worse than Nazi dicks? :popcorn::popcorn:

Dan:

I take this response as a confirmation that the information I posted is correct and there are no rules or special ordinances that can be enforced to protect the BHB right now.

Your bolded statement is a reasonable response (finally). If people don't like the existing regulatory structure, then they have a right (and maybe an obligation) to attempt to change it. That is far preferable than deliberatly disseminating misinformation and to take some type of threatening tone in a misguided attempt to intimidate people who intend to exercise their rights.

To be honest, the current governor is moving very quickly toward an elimination of regulations, a relaxation policy toward aggressive enforcement of environmental laws and a very strong push to make this state "OPEN FOR BUSINESS".

Institution of more restrictive laws and bigger government does not seem to be on his political agenda right now. From what little I understand, the State not the County must be the entity that is capable of instituting increased regualtions on this site.

I think that any lobby pressure would be much more effective in trying to prevent the governor from relaxation of the restrictions to phase out the secondarily treated sewage water outfalls which discharge directly to the ocean south of this location.

I'm sure there are many other issues which can be pursued that would provide a much greater net benefit to the local community than a ban on recreational collection at the BHB.

It will be a hard fight NOT to move backwards in the current political climate.
 
Dave is a man of his word and called back as he said he would.

The "no take" county ordinance is still in effect and remains unchanged. The only thing that's changed is that many park rangers were laid off and enforcement has been sparse.

He stated in the absence of Park Rangers, FWC and PBSO can help enforce the ordinance.

I spoke with Dave today about this subject. He seems like a super nice guy.

He also has now confirmed that there are no enforcable restrictions against collection of "tropicals" at BHB. It sounds like the county is no longer giving out conflicting information about this issue.

We also spoke about the eventual removal of the misleading signs referencing collecting that the County had installed there some time ago. I offered to remove them myself, but he indicated that there is probably a work order out there for the eventual removal of the "no collecting" sign(s).

He indicated that his Boss was working on the BHB Sanctuary issue, but he was not directly involved.
 
Sounds like this can be settled easily settled with a test case. Dive there all day watching for someone collecting fish and exit call the FWC or Ranger. Watch them for their exit and point them out to The Man. Have them write them for the oridnance and see what the judge thinks. Simple. Keep in mind they would have to exit with the collected fish for the Officer to confirm what as going on. Unless of course it was a Sworn LEO who saw the activity in which the "Fellow Officer Rule" aka transference of probable cause would be in effect.
 
My defense would be .. oh no.. I did not get this fish here.. I bought it at a pet store and am taking him for a stroll under the bridge in some tupperware....
 
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